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I'd say tires in a heartbeat. I'd rather have 255/40/17's on all four corners of my tC with stock suspension than all the trick suspension with the stock tires. I know I could drive it a LOT harder with better rubber.
 

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Not in my experience. You can have a "perfect" suspension, but if the tires are hard and slide, it just doesn't matter. The car will handle like crap. Handling is all about grip. If you don't have much to start with (like the OEM Bridgestones), there isn't much you can do to help without changing the tires first.

Keeping the OEM tires and hotrodding the suspension is like a CAI. Not much of a noticeable improvement when you put the watch on it.

Putting sticky tires on the car is like putting on forced induction. You start with a whole new set of performance parameters. Then you find you really NEED the suspension upgrades.
 

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true. but people also upgrade their springs, shocks, or go with coil overs first because 500 bucks is better spent on the suspension. then you can get the tires later. thats what i think. and sliding isnt neccessarily a bad thing. i've taken a 240sx sideways before and its one of the coolest things ive ever done.
 

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I've seen people spend $3k on suspension upgrades and go slower. Better tires always go faster.

If you're not sliding, you're not going even close to fast.
 

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Besides, we didn't address the real problem to going fast. You need to upgrade the nut behind the wheel. I guarantee you, a few track days will teach you more useful knowledge about how to go fast than $5k in mechanical upgrades to your car.

With that in mind, you should join us for karting at RPM tonight. It's worth more than any mod to your ride if the goal is going fast.
 

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well i said 500 not 5k but its ok. and i know that tires are a big part of the equation too. good suspension with ####ty tires wont get you no where. but im just saying you're gonna use the tires up a lot faster than a set of new coil overs. i think people would rather spend 500 bucks and buy the springs + shocks combo on trdsparks.com than go out and just getting brand new tires. and the sliding thing... thats just the drifting part of me that came out. heh. but i dont get this, what do you mean when u say,


You can have a "perfect" suspension, but if the tires are hard and slide, it just doesn't matter. The car will handle like crap. Handling is all about grip.
and then,
If you're not sliding, you're not going even close to fast.
so do you think grip is faster or sliding is faster?


btw, what kind of slicks do you think is the best?
 

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tires limit te potential of your suspension, you can get the maximum performance out of a crappy suspension with good tires, but if u put crap tires on a good suspension you can only handle as fast as the tires will allow you.

i wouldnt ditch my brand new bridgestones (as cruddy as they are) for good tires right away, ill do my suspension mods first, but you better believe when its time to replace the tires, new bridgestones are NOT going back on
 

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well i said 500 not 5k but its ok. and i know that tires are a big part of the equation too. good suspension with ####ty tires wont get you no where. but im just saying you're gonna use the tires up a lot faster than a set of new coil overs. i think people would rather spend 500 bucks and buy the springs + shocks combo on trdsparks.com than go out and just getting brand new tires. and the sliding thing... thats just the drifting part of me that came out. heh. but i dont get this, what do you mean when u say,


You can have a "perfect" suspension, but if the tires are hard and slide, it just doesn't matter. The car will handle like crap. Handling is all about grip.
and then,
If you're not sliding, you're not going even close to fast.
so do you think grip is faster or sliding is faster?


btw, what kind of slicks do you think is the best?
Spend $500 karting, and you'll go faster with a stock suspension than you will with no karting and $500 in suspension mods. Just MHO. No mechanical piece beats education and experience. I guarantee you, M. Schumacher could dust you in a bone stock tC against your meanest, trickest, most heavily modded car, even with a 50% power deficit. No amount of hardware can overcome skill.

Who cares about what gets used up faster? A car isn't an investment. Investments appreciate. Cars don't with only a very few exceptions. You will NEVER get your mod money back out of your car, so why not spend the money where it does the most good? Better tires are faster than better suspension, especially considering the poor performance the OEM tires bring to the table.

If I had to choose between spending $200 more on tires or $200 more on suspension, it's an easy win for tires. I've been to the race track, I know a better tire can mean SECONDS per lap over a lesser piece of rubber. The difference between a $300 shock and a $500 shock is rarely seconds, and usually just tenths because the expensive unit just gives you more settings to screw up. AMHIK.

In any case, the guys who are going fast are sliding around on their tires. If they bought the cheap tires, they are sliding around and going slow. If they bought the good tires, they are sliding around and chasing for the lead. Again, AMHIK.

The best slicks are the ones that grip the best on the day you are at the track. There isn't a best brand because they all have different rubber compounds that work best under specific track conditions. Even if I were to say Hoosier makes the "best" slicks, there would be days at certain tracks where a Kumho V710 might outrun them just because it's the best tire on that track under those weather conditions on that day. It's unlikely, but it happens. So, I can't say what the "best" slick is unless I know what you intend to do with it under what kind of weather conditions at what track. The perfect tire for Willow Springs big track in July is going to be completely different than the perfect tire for Seattle International Raceway in March which will also be different that the perfect tire for Sears Point (Infineon) Raceway in October.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Originally posted by scionholic@Feb 20 2005, 11:00 PM
I would say both are important.
If I had to choose I'd go with suspension.
What kind of tires did you have in mind
I have the 18 inch option, It came with 225/40 18 P zero nero's. Though when these burn out I'll go with a 245/40 18.
 

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What camber adjustment upgrade? It's adjustable from the factory, you just replace the upper bolt in the strut to change the camber.

Stock camber would probably work pretty well for drag racing, it's a little negative and when you jump on it, it will go close to neutral from extending. Pretty much what you want to happen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Im sorry I wasn't more specific. I ment a road course. And I must be gettin realy old cuss when I worked in a garage in high school you couldn't adjust the camber without a garage. I thought you needed to replace the tops of the front suspention braces and use the kind that ca be adjusted with a allen wrench. Does this ring a bell?
 

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Yeah, I know what you are talking about, but none of the Toyotas I've had since my '88 GTS Corolla had fixed camber that needed a camber plate.

I plan to change my alignment to -1.0 camber in the front and -1.2 in the back after I get wheels (despite all the discussion about zoot big dallah wheels, I'll planning to get 5zigen FN01RC's in 17x 8.0 with 245/40/17s). I'm really tired of the poor thing pushing like a farm implement when I want it to turn. I'll have to experiment with toe to get a good compromise between turn-in and inside edge wear. I just hope there's enough room in the wheel wells for those rims and tires.

There is no reason this should void the warranty unless suspension parts start breaking, then there might be some issues.
 
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