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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, if I was in a market for a sportwagon, that would be the car I'd get. My coworker bought it couple of months ago, so I got the keys from him for half an hour.

His is completely stock 5-speed. I liked how the parking brake is done - it moves 2 inches total - very nice. The shiftknob was leather with a chrome accent - good idea, bad execution on this one - looked kinda cheap. The throws are way longer than even the stock tC shifter, so here I was a bit disappointed, but everybody knows that it gets solved by a $120 part, so not a big deal. Doors were 2x lighter than tC, and very tinny - but tC is an exception in this area.

Now to the driving part. You know that I'm a 5-speed newb, tC is my first manual, so one would expect stalling and everything when changing cars, clutches, etc. Not in this case - I backed out of the parking space nice and smooth, put it in first and rolled to the parking lot exit. Very nice and smooth shifts, smooth clutch. Of course I had to peel out of the parking lot, chirped second nicely and went on. The engine is as quiet as tC's if not quieter. Gearing is taller than on the tC, but smooth as butter. I am still jerking my tC every once in a while, but that Mazda felt like I've been driving it for 5 years - I guess tC makes for a good 5-speed learning vehicle - if you can drive a tC - you can drive anything


Anyway, before I knew it I was doing 90 in 45 mile road, so I had to slow down. The reason I did not notice it is the engine is quiet and gears are not as ridiculously short as in tC, so by the time I shifted to 5th I was very close to 90... The car is much quicker than it sounds, or even feels. You don't hear any effort when the thing is accelerating and it's a good thing.

It handled as good as a stock tC on the turns - but I could not push it too hard, cause the guy had a bunch of junk on the seats and I did not want to spend 2 hours fishing it all from under the seats before I gave the keys back. In any case - very nice for a stock suspension.

All in all - thumbs up - good car.

On a side note - when I was going back home from the Metallica concert on saturday a red Mazda3 sedan tried to race me. Not sure if it was the 2.3L or a smaller one, or what transmission it was, but I did walk it bad from 65mph-90mph. Probably was a n auto 1.8L or whatever the tiny engine one is.
 

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Originally posted by SilverX@Nov 16 2004, 01:12 AM
The haters will say, "It's still a Ford."
It's still a Ford. Get back to me in 5 years.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Originally posted by basilisk4+Nov 16 2004, 08:46 AM-->QUOTE (basilisk4 @ Nov 16 2004, 08:46 AM)
<!--QuoteBegin-SilverX
@Nov 16 2004, 01:12 AM
The haters will say, "It's still a Ford." 
It's still a Ford. Get back to me in 5 years. [/b]
Marty, you are a Ford


This thing is built 100% in Japan. It's less of a ford than a Toyota Matrix (or a Corolla for that matter)...
 

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Except that Ford has a large ownership interest in Mazda, and no ownership interest in Toyota.

Some interesting Mazda facts:

- Ford has a controlling 33.4% interest in Mazda.
- In Europe, the Mazda 3 shares 60% of its parts with the Volvo S40 (also Ford-owned) and the Ford Focus.
- "In 1996 Ford Motor Company increased its shareholding in Mazda to 33.4 percent. The newly strengthened relationship has brought Mazda more capital to fund its efforts, and by the end of 2000 Mazda's cumulative production in Japan had exceeded 34 million cars." This is from Ford's website. So, right after Ford increased its share in Mazda from 25% to a controlling interest of 33.4%, Mazda's production in Japan increased, and coincidentally, a few years later all their new cars look totally different...

Ford has a controlling interest, and they give Mazda lots of money. Do you really think that Ford has no say in what goes on over at Mazda? Give me a break.

Sources:

http://www.ford.com/en/company/about/corpo...brandsMazda.htm
http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-sto...sp?news_id=5418
http://www.ford.com/en/company/about/brands/mazda.htm
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Mazda3 VIN numbers start with J, Corolla / Matrix VINs start with 2. Foreign parts content in Mazda3 - 100% (Japan), and 20% in Corolla/Matrix.

I know that Mazda is basically owned by Ford, but Mazda3 is not a Ford vehicle when it comes to "fix or repair daily", or "found on the road dead" - it's still a Japanese built and designed car.
 

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Almost bought me a Mazda 3s....but I was patient enough to wait 'til the tC came out. Hehe...they're both nice cars. I would have been pleased with either, to tell ya the truth. But I found the shift points in the 3s to be a tad off for my driving style... And Z is definitely right when he said it shifts smoooooooth. Even with a longer throw (which I would have definitely changed)...it sticks to the road a little better than the tC, also. I took a turn loaded with my parents and the sales guy at about 50 and it stuck well.
 

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Originally posted by zoltiz@Nov 16 2004, 11:44 AM
Mazda3 VIN numbers start with J, Corolla / Matrix VINs start with 2. Foreign parts content in Mazda3 - 100% (Japan), and 20% in Corolla/Matrix.

I know that Mazda is basically owned by Ford, but Mazda3 is not a Ford vehicle when it comes to "fix or repair daily", or "found on the road dead" - it's still a Japanese built and designed car.
Given that Ford has had a controlling interest in Mazda for over 8 years now, it's impossible to say that the virus that is Ford hasn't infected Mazda's operations in Japan as well.
 

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Originally posted by zoltiz@Nov 16 2004, 10:44 AM
Mazda3 VIN numbers start with J, Corolla / Matrix VINs start with 2.
Does it matter who makes the vehicle to determine the VIN? My tC starts with J.
 

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hehe i had my ford that would be 39 years old today...a/c still worked, unlike my freakin honda
but i get ur point jus wanted to play devils advocate
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Originally posted by onefunkyfreshdj+Nov 16 2004, 09:41 PM-->QUOTE (onefunkyfreshdj @ Nov 16 2004, 09:41 PM)
<!--QuoteBegin-zoltiz
@Nov 16 2004, 10:44 AM
Mazda3 VIN numbers start with J, Corolla / Matrix VINs start with 2.
Does it matter who makes the vehicle to determine the VIN? My tC starts with J. [/b]
First letter is the country of final assembly. 1-US, 2-Canada, J-Japan, google the rest
 

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I think the big 3 have improved over the last 10 years. Their improvement has come from reaction whereas the Japanese automakers are being proactive in their improvement. I have not owned a Ford in over 9 years, and I can't claim to know everything about the current reliability of American cars. I do know however that the consistency of the vehicles is just not the same as with the Japanese automakers.

That said, I wouldn't own a new vehicle manufactured by an American automaker. I just don't trust them. I like to tell myself that Ford has improved by picking up pieces of Volvo, Jag, and Mazda. Only time can tell.

Every tC owner here took a huge risk purchasing a car that was developed in 13 months from finalization of blueprints to design, Toyota's fastest turnaround yet. The model has very little basis to which we can compare. Sure, it has the well proven Camry 2.4L engine, but what else does it have? Not a whole lot. Or maybe its the fact that it is a product produced by Toyota, a very consistent and solid vehicle manufacturer. I purchased my first Toyota product in 1997, a V6 Camry. The car is nothing short of wonderful. In fact, I trust it enough to put my own family in it. Something I can't say for the vehicles from the big 3 automakers.

Anyway, my point is that if I have any doubt about a major purchase, I won't usually bite. I trusted Toyota/Scion enough to give them nearly $20k for something that hasn't yet been 'street proven', yet I still feel good about my purchase because they have consistently proven to be reliable. The Ford Mustang has been around for 40 years and I wouldn't dare buy one made in the last 35 years because they've proven only one thing, they're unreliable. Ford will have a lot to overcome if it wants to clear up its track record, unfortunately, I won't be doing any testing for them.

krzy
 

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I could probably type an essay about how stupid import vs domestic issues are.
Some words I would use are banal, unforgiving, a bitch (as in servant), open-minded, "It's just a [Insert Company name]", stupidity, childish, ungrateful, unmoderate, etc.
 

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Originally posted by SilverX@Nov 17 2004, 03:24 AM
I could probably type an essay about how stupid import vs domestic issues are.
Some words I would use are banal, unforgiving, a bitch (as in servant), open-minded, "It's just a [Insert Company name]", stupidity, childish, ungrateful, unmoderate, etc.
It sounds like your essay would be very banal and childish. If you're happy with Fords, hooray for you -- buy 43 of them. As for me, all I have to go on is anecdotal evidence -- what I've personally observed throughout my lifetime. And some of those are:

- My parents bought two identical Oldsmobiles in 1986. One of them was traded in for a 1989 Corolla two years later because of its constant transmission problems. The other died from transmission problems about four years later (with around 30,000 miles) after a low-speed, one-car accident. The 1989 Corolla required no significant work other than routine maintenance until it was replaced at approximately 120,000 miles in 2000, after handling two accidents, two teenage drivers, and a fairly long period of sitting around unused in between drivers.

- Until they bought that Corolla in 1989, neither my parents nor anyone in either of their families had ever bought a Japanese car. All of the cars in either of their families were American, except for one Fiat that my dad bought awhile back. Of the now 7 Toyotas that my family has owned since 1989, none has had anything even close to a serious problem. The 1989 had to have work done on its automatic locks, which were never installed properly by the dealer. Other than that, no problems until the 100,000 mile range, where parts start needing to be replaced (CV boots, PCV valve, hoses, belts, etc.). I drove my 1999 Corolla for 82,000 miles (up to a total of 98,000 on the car) and never had any problems.

- I have three friends who have had Ford Explorers that they themselves have owned or their families have owned within the last 5 years. One lasted 3 years before succumbing to engine problems. One is still ticking after 5 years and 100,000 miles, but has been in the shop no less than 10 times (most recently, a month ago) and is about to require a new engine.

- I have had two friends who have had Ford Probes. One lasted 4 years before repeatedly failing to pass emissions and being sold as a result. The other was a continuous problem from the time he got it, so much so that he was afraid to drive from Athens (where I went to school) to Atlanta (an hour away), for fear that his piece of crap would break down again.

- I had one friend who had a late 80's Escort coupe which actually lasted at least about 6 or 7 years.

- Of all the people I have known who have bought a Toyota or Honda, I have not known one who had significant problems with it.

- My uncle bought a 2001 MAZDA Tribute brand new in 2001. Three months ago, he had to entirely replace the transmission at about 38,000 miles.

...And the list goes on and on. Look around you sometime when you're on the highway. How often do you see 10-year old domestic cars on the road (other than pickup trucks, which are an inexplicable exception)? Not often. The cars I see most often on the side of the road, other than old clunkers, are newer domestics. I never see a 2-year-old Corolla, Camry, or Accord stopped on the side of the road with its hood up...but a Taurus? Sure thing.

So go on -- keep telling yourself that domestic vehicles are not inferior to Japanese vehicles. Keep thinking that other people are just unreasonable, and that they are just making stuff up. That's exactly the kind of thinking, by American automakers, that has allowed Honda and Toyota to gain so much market share in the U.S. Until American automakers stop relying on the "Built in the U.S.A." tagline so much and actually start doing what it takes to produce high-quality vehicles that are capable of competing with Japanese cars, a Ford will always still be "just a Ford."
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Marty was on a roll here
Wow.

Mazda Tribute = Ford Escape (aka No Escape) - a well known POS made in the USA...

Oh I thought I saw "big 3" mentioned somewhere - as of now worldwide the big three are GM, Ford and Toyota
 

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You assumed about my opinion that I never stated. The essay would be banal? Nah, I think most essays would turn out pro-import & anti-american or vice versa, but a few moderates; which is where I stand.

You probably think I like American cars? I don't, but want to know why it appears that I do? Because the internet is filled with many opiniated people that lack true knowledge or any sensibility (in this case, everyone here wants the best for themselves (maybe some people honor family tradition of owning Chevy's, Fords,etc. But they must be stupid right?). Go visit the average Car Forum, I'm pretty sure you'll see comments like "It's just a Hyundai" and what not when someone would say something positive of Hyundai, and I find that carping. Same goes for any automaker.

I spent 2 years on NewTiburon and wow, what a community. People that actually know more about cars than any other forum I've been to; but a Hyundai Tiburon? But "it's just a Hyundai!"

Maybe you don't see my message, but it's that of disgust for people who just assumes and is never willing to give a chance unless statistics tell them it's a good choice. Yea, thats smart (obeying statistics) but that makes me feel limited, like a dog.

A simple analogy is the political system.
You either favor one or the other, or be moderate (due to lack of political efficacy, sociology, psychology reasons, etc.) Thing is, I'm moderate because I don't believe I have to succumb to a party. Although I may favor one over the other, I won't pledge my vote to yellow-dogging; to me, that makes you a party's "bitch"

As a moderate, I don't have to tell other people which side I like better or not. People who favor a certain party will tell you only the good things about their party, and the bad of the others.

What is the good thing about Ford when the bad is that it sucks? Well tradition can be one, history can be another. Go ask an avid Ford fanatic, but I wouldn't know. Tradition and History may mean nothing to you, but it's why Historical Landmarks aren't grazed to make Condo's, Malls, etc., and why we follow the Two Party system of politics.

But hey, this is America and there exist a diverse opinion. But the way you said "So go on -- keep telling yourself that domestic vehicles are not inferior to Japanese vehicles." is just so friendly. I never stated my position, but you're clearly Pro-Import. Nothing wrong with that, just the praising I don't enjoy.

The irony of it all is that this is all childish
 

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(clap-clap-clap) that was a good argument, no huge jabs! im a car lover, neither import nor domestic and i too appreciate your moderate stance. you have a good grasp on that, and its nice to see. i've owned a mixed bag three mustangs, and four civics. lets focus on our scions and the mazda and not on busting eachothers balls.
 

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Yes... let's stick to the subject at hand.
 

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Originally posted by SilverX@Nov 17 2004, 10:02 PM
But hey, this is America and there exist a diverse opinion. But the way you said "So go on -- keep telling yourself that domestic vehicles are not inferior to Japanese vehicles." is just so friendly. I never stated my position, but you're clearly Pro-Import. Nothing wrong with that, just the praising I don't enjoy.

The irony of it all is that this is all childish
Yea, that was childish of me. I was doing fine until then, just expressing an opinion and supporting it, but that line was silly and childish of me. I was just trying to explain that I wasn't just assuming or blindly following when it comes to not liking Fords...it's more of a "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" kind of thing.


Oh, and I totally agree with you about being moderate. I try to be on most things, because otherwise you risk falling into following something or someone blindly...
 

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Wow. Discussions like this are what makes this forum so superior to most of the forums out there. Mature, well thought out, concise, and overall pleasing to read. I've noticed how the threads don't tend to deteriorate into a 'shouting' matches or get so offtopic that you need to look in the suspension thread to find info about changing engine oil.

I really appreciate how everyone can agree to disagree and still respect the other opinion. I myself am conservative yet I don't subscribe to the 'pressure' of either side. I form my own opinions based on observation and experience, then take action based on what I actually think is the right thing to do. We truly are a rare breed, thanks for making yoursciontc.com such a nice place to visit.

I'm curious what the average age and education here is. My guess is that most are well educated and over 25. But that's just a guess.

(OK, back on topic now... sorry)
 
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