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I kinda brought this question ones i didnt get any replayes.
I know what are you thinking if s2000 has 2.2 lt engine and it's putting out 240 hp and how about a 2.4 lt engine.
 

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See the torque discussion. You're talking apples and oranges. There's a good reason Honda gets 240 PEAK hp out of their engine, and a good reason we won't get that easily with the 2AZ.
 

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Yeah Toyco needs to make a 2.4 vvtl-i engine now since there no turbo cars in their line up. BTW that 1.8 vvtl-i it's getting kinda old. (i'm sure they won't, but hey i have my hopes)
 

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the stroke of the 2az is aimed toward low end torque whereas the F20C (S2000 motor), has a short stroke made for high revs. the F20C has 11.5:1 compression, whereas the 2az has 9.4:1 (i think i forgot the actual number but its close to that)

VVTL-i is a great technology and i dont know why toyota isnt persuing it further...they seem to be more interested in dual vvti and hybrid technologies. (all the new lexus are going to have dual vvti engines...and toyco is making more and more hybrid cars and even high performanc hybrids.. i.e the Volta)
 

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Here is what I would like to see done. Make the bore and stroke square. At least so we can get more revs without loosing too much torque down low. Raise the compression a bit, mabey 10.5:1. Then engineer a vvtL-i head for this thing. I think with the raise in compression would almost make up for the loss of stroke. I would like to see it produce 200-220 hp NA. Offer both engines that way you can have two tC models. Kinda like the Acura RSX/RSX s. I would have spent an extra 1500-2000 on an advanced engine like this.
 

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Yeah i would spend more then $2k. I know they are trying to get more customers by making all those hybrids, but they also need to keep the racers alive.
The 2k7 supra is going to be non-turbo and it's going to be an exotic car in the price range of $40k-$60, which most of us here can't have. I know Lance knows more about the new supra since i havent been on the supra's forum and the gtr forums latly.
 

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You guys should pay better attention to the state of the world around you. Toyota is being smart about how they conduct business and know that the future is in hybrids and alternative fuels first and foremost, not high performance gas guzzlers. Unless someone figures out how to magically create emissionless oil from water, you can count on seeing a decline in the gasoline engine. That's not to say we won't have high performance hybrids but the performance won't come until after the technologies are perfected.
 

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What really burns my @$$ is the fact that the s2000 gets better gas mileage than our cars. ultimately they are lighter and sleeker which lends itself to higher gas mileage but still i think tyoco could make the 2az a little more efficient.
 

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^^^ With no actual knowledge I would guess that the s2000 get better mileage because you have to make them scream to accelerate. With that, I think that if you take it very easy the engine will sip gas.
 

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Originally posted by simplespirit@Jun 22 2005, 03:46 AM
You guys should pay better attention to the state of the world around you. Toyota is being smart about how they conduct business and know that the future is in hybrids and alternative fuels first and foremost, not high performance gas guzzlers. Unless someone figures out how to magically create emissionless oil from water, you can count on seeing a decline in the gasoline engine. That's not to say we won't have high performance hybrids but the performance won't come until after the technologies are perfected.
We've got about 15, maybe 20, years of cheap oil left, give or take a few. It's already knocking on $60 a barrel, and I suspect before 2010 it will be at or near $100 a barrel.

What does this mean? Like all major upheavals in the status quo; wars (why do you really think we are in Iraq?), pestilence, and dramatic changes in lifestyle.

Will there always be gasoline? Probably. Will it be cheap enough to fuel individual transportation devices? Probably not.

What does the future hold? Hybrids? No. They use more oil to produce, operate, and dispose of than conventional cars. Alternative fuels? Doubtful. Alcohol fuels take more energy to produce and distribute than they provide. Hydrogen, California's big (rather stupid) bet for the future is derived from what? Water? No, breaking water apart takes a LOT more energy than you get back by recombining it with oxygen. No, hydrogen is being produced in bulk from natural gas, another limited fossil fuel.

Will the technologies be "perfected?" Yes, we have made some significant improvements in chemical batteries (except the toxicity problems are a constant nagging reminder we have to clean up after ourselves, and that costs RESOURCES). Will alternative fuels save mankind's future? Pretty unlikely. They all take more energy to produce than we get from them, it's fundamental science, and it's unavoidable.

For a really sobering read, click here, and follow some of the links. The guys running this site are not a bunch of chicken little dudes, they are quoting our own government officials, heads of industry, and credentialed scientists.

I don't believe it means performance vehicles are dead, but it sure means the days of a cheap ride are nearly over. Enjoy it while you can, for the times they are a changin'!
 

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how depressing. i think its time that i figure out the structure of an enzyme that can catalyze a reaction of sugars and starches into fossil fuels. the natural way just takes too long.
 

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Yes, an enzyme that will do this without requiring some hydrocarbon fuel to support its existence, just thrive on vegetable matter. Nothing like a good challenge, eh?

Edit: Here are a few more sobering links:

Negative - Life After the Oil Crash
Oil Crisis
Peak Oil

Positive - Marshall Brain's Blog (he's the guy who started howitworks.com)
Alternative Engineering site

I wouldn't mind going to alcohol fuels for our vehicles the way Brazil has done, but it would cost more than oil does right now, and would mean a significant resource shift. There's also the unsustainable long term problem because of low specific heat, but I digress.

The more I dig, the more frightening it is.
 
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