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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well i'm going to be installing everything in just a few weeks, and i am going to be using my stock HU for a few months until i can get some extra cash to put towards one HU i really like. While researching the whole time. But as for now i'm going to be using the stock HU.

My question comes from the setup for the stock HU. Its a pioneer unit with built in SSP, that is Scion Sound Processing, which has differet car setups and EQ for each setup. There is the car selector, tC, xA, and xB. As well as for each car the 3 EQ setups. Neutral, Hear, and Feel. As well as Bass and Treble settings. Being an Audiophile as i may be, i want the flatest response possible. With everything sounding just right, A strong midbass section, Deep deep bass extension, smooth midrange and a very nice layed back high end. And i want to be able to get all of this with my stock HU for the time being. So i'm wondering really which would be the best setup to use, that would give me the best sound possible. I know the stock speakers are built and the HU EQ is based on the response of the car and speakers, and whatnot, but i want the best response possible from what i have to work with for now.

So anyone out there that has a very good understanding of the stock tC HU and EQ curves it may have i would be very intrested in finding out how to get the best response possible.

All sounds are based on the stock speakers and such.

tC= Seems dull and lifeless, emphasis on midrange, much quieter than other car settings. bass +2-3 to get any decent midbass out of stock speakers.
xA= Midrange sounds distant but bearable, midbass seems strong but up high it lacks cymbals and such. Much fuller sound than tC.
xB= Better midbass, not as much midrange, Much fuller sound than tC, not as full as xA.

Neutral = Seems flat, no midbass, lack of upper end.
Hear= better midbass.
Feel= heavy boost in the lower midbass region to get subwoofer type feel. Without sub.

Right now i have the tC, Feel options on with a Bass +2 or +3 and tweet +1 or +2.

When i put in my new speakers, Seas CA18 and LPG 26's how much of a difference will the speakers make against the stock HU's EQing, and such, as i really want the flatest response possible.

Sorry this is so long of a post but i have alot of questions i can't explain really. Any ideas suggestions from those who know or have messed with the Stock HU.?
 

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All of the settings are pretty asstastic when combined with decent aftermarket speakers. A pretty cool dude went through all the trouble of posting the EQ curves here.
Personally, I kept the OEM deck and added CleanSweep, but the deck is pretty easy to swap in this car. In my opinion most aftermarket decks are a lateral move at best. I do acknowledge that some of them have way-pretty lights though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
So how exactly does the cleansweep work, how is it controlled, and how much does it cost. Thanks for the reply btw, very good link, i liked the EQ graphs, just what i was wanting to see.

As it looks XB Feel seems to be the flatest overall EQ setting. as it has some of the lower 25hz stuff that the other settings lack considerably, as well as the XA Feel.

MAn i thought this was gonna be a tad bit easier than this, i thought the EQ wasn't that bad but come to see the EQ curves either 20k hz is drawn out alot, or 20hz is lacking horribly. I'd rather like a 20-20khz +/- 1-2db curve more. I hate manufacturers.......
 

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CleanSweep is basically a DSP driven 120 bands of EQ (30 bands per channel) with 8V line driver, Aux input and master volume control. The CleanSweep ships with a calibration disk wich is used to allow the unit to analyze the curve shape of the OEM EQ and make the appropriate corrections. The result of the calibration is an electrically flat signal which you would get from an aftermarket deck. It does this automatically with the push of a button. This process is being patented. SRP is $399.
If you swap out the deck, it will solve all of the problems CleanSweep corrects. This is not possible is a growing number of cars however.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
So i could basically either get one of the cleansweep units, or an aftermarket deck to get a flat response. As your saying it i swap out the deck it will solve all of the porblems cleansweep protects......so are you trying to say that there are some cars out there that don't have the EQ set into the HU but somewhere else? That even if you swap the deck it will still have those built in EQ's?

MSRP is 400 but what would i actually need to pay. Also does volume get adjusted from the unit, or the HU. For $400 i could get one hell of a SQ HU.
 

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I'm confused. Why would you chose electrically flat over audibly flat?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well not sure if your asking me or JLTD, but i want an audibly flat response, but the stock HU EQ settings arn't anywhere close to being flat, they are built in to make it sound flat, to make up for speaker designs and speaker responses. When i put the new Equipment in i want to have the flatest response possible to work with. I really doubt that the EQ settings will give me that.
 

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I get that, I'm asking JLTD because I don't understand the advantage of electrically flat if the speakers have a horrible response curve, so I'd like to understand the logic behind setting the HU electrically flat, and what you then do to compensate for speaker response and the variables of interior acoustics. Yes, this is a serious question, I'm not trying to bait you or be an a55.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Beleive me i didn't think you were, this is a highly serious question for myself as well. cause i would really like to be able to do this whole install without having to drop another 300 or so on a decent SQ HU.

I will be installing the Seas CA18 midbass and LPG 26 tweets with a Tempest playing sub duty. So i should have a fairly flat audible response with the drivers i have chosen, but the singal is what is bothering me as of now, or what i may be running into.
 

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The aftermarket head unit would be electrically flat. It gives you a starting point. The OEMs build in DSP to compensate for the $1 speakers that they install. When you replace the speakers the EQ remains and you then can have poor results. It's easy to replace the deck in a Scion, but in a growing number of cars it's not.
I'm not sure if $400 gets anything super-duper over what is already installed from the OEM, but it's going to be flat which is an advantage.
I don't think many Scion owners will elect to buy a CleanSweep over the aftermarket, but it has been tremendously popular among other car owners.
 

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In response to the original question: I've found the best results using the TC Feel setting, treble at 5, bass at -2. This setting allows you to play the volume all the way up to the 50's, so u get good loud highs, without the midrange's blowing up or distorting. Different types of music I may put the bass up a little, but never above 0.

Many people have suggested changing the car setting to xa or xb, but I think that there's a reason the ssp has a tc setting, because the eq settings are designed for the tc's cabin. I just think that the tc setting overall sounds better, the other settings may sound good at a certain decibel range, but inconsistent sq throughout the spectrum.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
My main origional question is basically to get an idea of where i should start when i put my new midbasses and tweets in. Which i am in the process of doing now. An EQ setting that would give me the flatest origional response possible, something that i can base my idea of how the car sounds once i get everything situated and dialed in.

Will be changing tweeter positions into the A-pillars so there will be a change in sound. Away from stock positions.

I will also be running completely active so i have plenty of adjustability with infinite XO points and such. And by simply looking at the Response curves for each Car type and SSP Setting right now XA Feel and XB feel look the most appealing to me, I should be able to attunuate the Upper 10k+ hz range on my crossover to flatten that area out some, as well as messing around with the lower midbass crossover point and blending with the Sub around the 50-60hz area to hopefully get a VERY flat XO transition. xA and xB feel appeal to me the most because there are hardly any deep cutts on the response graphs, as tC along with some of the Neutral, and Hear settings have......I'm looking for flatest response throughtout the WHOLE response even into the upper to mid teens. I'd love to hit some of the 18hz testing notes on some CD's i have.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Very much so, i hope to compete SQ one day......I love to have my music sound like its supposed too, without having an overemphasis.

Install is going VERY good as of now, Doors are completely deadened (sealed up access holes with a layer of Aluminum Flashing) Built up a new speaker Baffle using 2 layers of 3/4" MDF, car is still gutted, Ensolite everywhere, Eggshell foam layer covering 2 layers of deadener and single layer of ensolite on rear quarter panels and soon to be rear hatch side panels, Hatch is completely dead, layer of ensolite covering it all. Car sound is very impressive as of now, ALOT of work needs to be done to get more impact from midbasses, tone down the midrange a bit, and take out a few spikes from the 6-10k hz range to get a much more flat response from the car. I still need to redo my mounting brackets for my tweets with some velcro to hold them better, as well as attach the tweets to the brackets better with some velcro to hold them on (using duct tape right now). The rear of the car looks like a bomb exploded right now though, going to be starting on my sub box here in a few days so the hatch space will be looking better soon. I have no pics as of yet but will hopefully soon. Still need to find a set of pillar panels to mod though. I also need to do a tad bit of deadening and ensoliting around the firewall area and kickpanel area to cut some road noise down as well. Other than that the car is going great.

Only problem i'm facing right now is the HU still, its throwing off the imaging as well as adding bumps in response in a few places that shouldn't be getting them with the added EQ curves that come with the HU. But i'm still trying to figure out a flat response setting on the HU that i can use for the time being and tune to that. Will be getting a new HU as soon as possible (most likely in a few months as it looks).

But overall everything is going as planned, disapointed with stock HU sound still though, but will live with it for a while.
 
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