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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i just got my scion and i cant decide if i wana put in a new dash stereo in or if i shoould get new speakers...yea i no most of u prolly are saying do both but im a lil short on the cash...the system isnt bad but when u turn it up loud with the bass up the lyrics get all disstorted and everything...so what would be the best way or thing to do to make my music loud and clear with good bass output too...not like a subwoofer bass but just bass...im not a fan of drowing out my music...the bass is pretty good now just when its up loud everything gets disstorted...so should i go with speakers or a stereo..and on either one could you recomend what would be best...thanks
 

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When you look at all the features the OEM deck offers (Aux in, SAT ready, low source impedance, high voltage swing, good ergonomics, MP3, fits into the dash without a plastic kit, etc.) you'll need to spend big $$ to match it.
Replacing the speakers would technically offer more performance if they are better than the OEM. Just because it's aftermarket does not necessarily mean it's better.
Keep in mind that if you are going to drive the amplifier into clipping (turn up bass, turn up volume) the aftermarket speakers will sound distorted too (distortion is a by-product of clipping). You can replace the OEM with speakers that have greater excursion potential and that will clean up some mechanical compression issues (speakers can't move as far as you want them too). In the speaker category, you'll need to invest some decent $$ to get and upgrade as well.
Some good arguments for the head unit are:
You can actually replace it in the Scion (many cars you can't).
It will be electrically flat (no processing to make the cheap OEM speakers sound decent).
If you spend the $$ you can get super-cool features like video and 5.1 etc.
Some of them have really pretty lights.
Some good arguments against replacing:
Now you can hear how bad the OEM speakers really are (DSP gone).
Cosmetic & Mechanical integration not as good.
If you were going to do only one thing, I feel replacing the speakers will have the most impact if you invest in something good.
Personally, I have installed an entire system (amps, speakers, subwoofer) and retained the OEM head unit.
 

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so jltd, are you saying that if I replace the headunit with a nice alpine, that the speakers will reveal how bad they really are? I heard that the stock unit equalizes the speakers to send more of the soundstage to the front.. my civic had an alpine headunit and had a greater 'Soundstage" (aka wider stereo effect) than the tC's pioneer headunit.. let me know.. thanks.. because i was thinking of upgrading the headunit and leaving the speakers alone for now... not sure if that's what i should do, like if it was a waste of time..
 

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Heres my take on your dillema. Currently you are having to turn the factory head unit up too high to get the volume you want. Since you are having to turn it up that high its driving the amp to distortion or making the speakers bottom out. What you were describing sounds more like distortion so we will address that. If you want to minimize distortion you need to be using less of the volume knob but still get the volume you are looking for. For this you will need more efficient speakers. Speakers that more effectively turn power into sound. Look for speakers with a high Db efficency. Now to address the other issue. Bass. When you start wanting more bass out of a speaker you have to do one of two things. Increase the cone diameter(which in this case cant happen, since you are replacing with speakers of the same size), or increase peak to peak excursion.
For a manufacturer to increase the p2pE they have to make the basket deeper(which means you might have mounting problems) and make the suspension more robust to handle the increased movement of the cone. This is where the problem comes in. Making the cone and suspension more robust usually decreases efficency which in turn requires the speaker to need more power to reach its maximum output. However there are exceptions. Superior engineering, exotic materials and good craftsmanship can help alleviate the problem. But these types of speakers generally cost much much more. So the best solution is to try to find an efficient set of speakers that will sound better than the factorys but not break the bank. Then add a subwoofer later for bass.
 

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thanks for the reply..

what i am finding is that the volume is fine.. it's just that the sound quality of the pioneer deck isn't that "clear" in that it is not that articulate in the sound like my old alpine in my old car.. and i was wondering if possibly a new head unit would change that.. or are the speakers equalized in the stock head unit making them sound better than they are? or if i get an alpine head unit, will the speakers sound better?

I know that new speakers make a huge difference. It's just that this is a lease (yeah i leased a tC, was easier for me at this time) and i didn't want to start ripping apart the car.. but a new head unit was easy to put in..
thanks.. let me know
 

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Well theres good news and bad news. First the bad. I think that I've heard that they create individual "sound profiles" for the inside of the 3 different scions. They probably put a mic in the car and measured specific frequency response and created a custom eq and level profile for the car. So changing the head deck will cause you to loose that. The good news. If you change the deck you will probably have more power to work with. That will raise the noise floor and give you more head room and better sound. If you have a good ear and know how to set up the eq you can probably get it to sound quite a bit better than the factory radio. But dont skimp on the radio or you will only get a bass and trebel adjustment when you could really use one with mids and possibly a multi band eq. Such as a nice pioneer ( i also like pioneer for their mosfet amp). Also changing the head unit to a nicer one gives you multiple pre amp outs. So you can add amps and stuff later if you choose.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
ok ive decided to get speakers...i no thers components up from but im gonna leave the tweeters in and just get 2 pair 6 and 1/2 speakers....is that ok if i just leave the tweeters in...and nother thing can you suggest any brand names for me of good speakers...im looking for quality crisp sound and good but not "drowning the music out" bass....in the range of no more then 300 dollars
 

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The DSP is in OEM head units for two reasons: make the $1 speakers sound good and to protect them through the warranty period. A lot of the equalization is volume dependant. For example, the bass attenuates as you raise the volume.

Pyro, you are painting with a very broad brush in regards to speaker design.
 

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well in terms of total speaker engineering, absolutely. There are thousands of variables. but I figured that saying "more expensive speakers are better" was a little too broad. but lets try to help him out with some brands since he asked. My prefrences in the price range would be polk, alpine, memphis audio, boston acoustics. I'm sure there are bunches more also. Personally I like to look for speakers with a soft dome tweeter because I like the sound better. take a ride out to your local sound shop and see what tickles your fancy. Later
 

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Originally posted by recampbell45@Jan 16 2005, 09:33 PM
i just got my scion and i cant decide if i wana put in a new dash stereo in or if i shoould get new speakers...yea i no most of u prolly are saying do both but im a lil short on the cash...the system isnt bad but when u turn it up loud with the bass up the lyrics get all disstorted and everything...
The PIONEER HU is actually pretty suave.......
I would keep that and spend your $$$ on a SUB and good speakers.
With an exception of few HIGH PRICED cars and makes OEM speakers are basically cheap paper placeholders.....

Go to crutchfield.com and use their "what firs in my car" feature to find out what you can easily replace you OEM speakers with....

If you are serious go with POLK or INFINITY COMPONENTS
BTW. Do not worry about SCION proprietary speaker mounts (three hole), you can get an adapter from SCOSHE or... use your OEM speaker as adapters (remove the cone)

Same as with HOME equipment SPEAKERS MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE....
 

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"With an exception of few HIGH PRICED cars and makes OEM speakers are basically cheap paper placeholders....."

Other people at this forum have said these speakers are NOT paper. I think the speakers are pretty damn good for a $16k car.

"Same as with HOME equipment SPEAKERS MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE.... "

Apparenlty you've never had a really good head unit...or reciever for your home theatre system.
 

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Originally posted by Zygote55@Jan 30 2005, 02:13 PM
Other people at this forum have said these speakers are NOT paper...
The fronts are not paper but the rears are paper.
 

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Having been a professional musician for much of my life, my opinion of the tC's stock speakers is that they're not too bad at all. I'm definitely adding a subwoofer as soon as I can, but the front speakers are decent for OEM. That's not to say that I won't replace them eventually with some Boston Acoustics...
 

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Originally posted by Zygote55@Jan 30 2005, 11:13 AM
"With an exception of few HIGH PRICED cars and makes OEM speakers are basically cheap paper placeholders....."

Other people at this forum have said these speakers are NOT paper. I think the speakers are pretty damn good for a $16k car.

"Same as with HOME equipment SPEAKERS MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE.... "

Apparenlty you've never had a really good head unit...or reciever for your home theatre system.
Yeah the fronts are not paper and since they are composites they MIGHT actually be good. Rule of the thumb is OEM spaekers, with FEW EXCEPTIONS, are cheap and bad.

As far as HOME SYSTEMS I do believe speakers make more difference that HU.
 

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"As far as HOME SYSTEMS I do believe speakers make more difference that HU."

I agree, but that isn't to say good speakers with a bad HU is going to be good all the time... I noticed a huge difference in my old car when I switched out the sony HU for an Alpine.
 

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In car systems, it has been my personal experience that putting in a high-quality HU can make a huge difference...perhaps even more of a difference than changing out the speakers.
 

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IMHO, your sytem is only going to sound as good as it's weekest link. Right now, that is the stock speakers!! Replace them first. Spend as much as you can to get the best quality for your money. You'll notice the biggest improvement that way. Then, save your pennies for the next upgrade...HU, amp, or sub...choice is yours!!! Good luck.
 
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