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Discussion Starter #1
Ok guys, with all the squeek/rattle trouble this roof has given Scion engineer's do you think its really worth it? I mean seriously, the roof is NO WHERE near panoramic. On the outside, yea its all glass........big whoop cause you can only see out of an extra 8x11 area in the back!!!!!!!!!!

Would you rather have a rock-solid tC with a normal sunroof (ditch that little back non-functional roof) or have the "pseudo-panoramic" roof with all of its troubles?
Those of you who dont have roof rattles can still answer, does that 2nd sunroof justify the extra cost/structural support/weight/lower gas mileage???? Disucss....... - t
 

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Hell yes its worth it...
Although it maybe heavier than the normal metal roof... although it screaks/rattles/pops... although it gets lots of water spots... although I gotta hear everyone complain about it, this is including myself... although the mechanical parts will probably get worn down in a few years and will cost us a few hundred bucks to replace... although it may leak one day... I still love it!!


The glass roof is an integral part of the tC. Without it, its just another wannabe sports coupe... like the hyndai tiberon
. Its what differentiate us from other wannabe sports coupe owners.

Eventhough most of us will leave the moon roof cover closed to protect the interior from sun damage... and those of us who do leave it open, probably don't even have passengers in the back to enjoy it... I say Hell Yah... its still worth it.

Honestly... if tC owners wanted a sports coupe... we should go buy a real sports coupe. I think the tC offers just the right balance of style, grace, power, utility and value. I wouldn't trade the glass roof for an extra 5-10 HP... or whatever it is we would supposedly gain from the reduction in weight. I could open up my left fog light cover to get that for free... why else do you think Scion made the fog lights go in the middle grill instead of the the side pockets where the fog lights are supposed to go?


On another note, do you really think Scion will lower the price of the car next year if it comes out with a tC without the glass roof? I don't think so. Its all a marketing ploy to reduce their production & maintenance (warranty) costs to get a better bottom line.

Of course... this is just my take on this... what do I know about cars... about business... I'm just a girl...
 

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I totally think the scion engineers should have just stuck with a normal sunroof / moonroof rather than the "panoramic moonroof." I think that the opening for the front moonroof is too small, and the one in the back isn't even that big and doesn't open. Plus the passengers in the back can barely see out of the back moonroof anyways. The idea for the panoramic moonroof is novel for a sports coupe, but the cons of it plus the poor execution outweighs the benefits of the panoramic moonroof. If they some how designed it to be bigger (truly panoramic), and no rattles, then I think the benefits of the panoramic roof would outweigh the cons.

Pros with no panoramic moonroof:

1. LIGHTER!!! (panoramic moonroofs usually add 150-200lbs) which means faster, better handling, better braking, and better gas mileage. (a better sports car overall)

2. Stiffer Chassis with out all glass roof (less body flex and safer crash/roller over)

3. Cheaper: yes the tc is cheap, but it could have been even cheaper without the extra design/materials/engineer costs to the panoramic roof.

4. No cheap moonroof cover, could have used a solid sliding cover.

5. No squeaks, rattles, or wind noise do to panoramic roof.

6. More head room for all passengers.

7. (maybe) Could have made a single roof slide back into the roof, instead of up and out.

8. Not sure, but I think that the glass roof makes it like sauna in the the car on hot days, like a greenhouse. Regular moonroof might be cooler on hot days

9. Better looking roof from the exterior, with body color on roof

10. Bigger moonroof for front passengers (the ones who count
)

The reasons I mentioned above, the degree of the benefit might be minimal or substantial, but nevertheless, there would be the above improvements.

Yep, so due to all those reasons...I think for 2006 they should offer a standard roof, or a regular moonroof.

Just my 2 cents...more like 3 cents. But either way, I still think the tc rocks!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
edng, you put into words what I thought in my head as I wrote my original post. I agree with everything you wrote, and I believe that the tC could have gone from great to excellent with the benefits proidedby a normal roof........ - t
 

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imasaf wrote:

"The glass roof is an integral part of the tC. Without it, its just another wannabe sports coupe... like the hyndai tiberon . Its what differentiate us from other wannabe sports coupe owners. "

Very true, I totally agree. It does make the tc very unique. I just wish the engineers pulled it off better. But who knows, maybe if they do make a regular roof in the future, maybe the benefits I mentioned in the post above would be very minimal. Meaning the engineers actually did a really good job! who knows


imasaf also wrote:

"On another note, do you really think Scion will lower the price of the car next year if it comes out with a tC without the glass roof?"

I'm not sure...they might not because it would take more design/ engineering to change the the existing chassis. But I'm pretty sure material/manufacturing wise, it should be cheaper. My overall guess would be that it should be cheaper. But because of this, I'm guessing that in the future they won't make a fixed roof due to the fact that they will have to sell tc for less, plus it will cost more for them to design a regular roof. The only reason I think they would make a regular roof is if the panoramic roof has enough problems to slow/ deter sales (which doesn't seem to be the case now) or making a normal roof is cheaper for them.

But if from the very beginning the made a normal roof, meaning the 2005 tc, it definately would have been cheaper. But what's already done is done.
 

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Originally posted by imasaf@Sep 13 2004, 10:05 PM
Hell yes its worth it...


...
Agree with every word! err.. except for the fact that I'm not a girl


Seriously though, the moonroof is a differentiator. I think it makes it stand out from all the other cars.

I have to add that I've yet to hear any noise from my moonroof. I suppose I might feel differently otherwise.

Also I mainly commute in this car, so if I can get to/from work comfortably, reliably, and in a little bit of style, so much the better.
 

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Ok... let me ask you guys/gals... did the panoramic sun/moon roof combination not excite you at all when you first saw the car?? Did it not make you feel like the car had that extra umph?? Does it not bring you joy or pride when you show it off to your family or friends?? Does it not make you feel different and unique as an individual driving around in this car??

Just remember... sometimes the intangible things are not accounted for or gets less recognition because they are not easily measurable... not because they aren't important. How you feel about the car or what it represents for you... is very important. If its not... why would companies work so hard to develop an image for their brand??

If Scion plans on getting rid of the panoramic roof next year... they should just put the car back into the Toyota line and call it the 06 Celica!
 

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Originally posted by edng16@Sep 13 2004, 11:40 PM
But if from the very beginning the made a normal roof, meaning the 2005 tc, it definately would have been cheaper.
Yes... and they would have had to call it the 05 Celica...
 

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I think the 05 tC looks great with the panoramic moonroof. I do not believe that the 05 would've been cheaper to buy (cheaper to produce, yes, but I don't think they were going to lower the sticker any more than it already is) even without the panoramic moonroof. I also don't believe that the sunroof/moonroof in the front would've been bigger otherwise -- people who ride in my car are constantly telling me how huge the front moonroof is, and I haven't seen a bigger one in a car of similar size.

If speed had been my only concern, I would've bought a 350Z...
 

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The sunroof is a part of tC signature and a "wow" factor - well worth it.
 

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Originally posted by zoltiz@Sep 14 2004, 06:58 AM
The sunroof is a part of tC signature and a "wow" factor - well worth it.
...indeed, but it pops all the time...
 

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Originally posted by QuadinScionTC+Sep 14 2004, 08:49 AM-->QUOTE (QuadinScionTC @ Sep 14 2004, 08:49 AM)
<!--QuoteBegin-zoltiz
@Sep 14 2004, 06:58 AM
The sunroof is a part of tC signature and a "wow" factor - well worth it.
...indeed, but it pops all the time...
[/b]
Patience, Yago. We'll get a TSB soon
 

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The pop in the sunroof is fixable. Take it to the dealership. It's an easy fix.
 

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Originally posted by TCrazy@Sep 13 2004, 08:51 PM
Ok guys, with all the squeek/rattle trouble this roof has given Scion engineer's do you think its really worth it? I mean seriously, the roof is NO WHERE near panoramic. On the outside, yea its all glass........big whoop cause you can only see out of an extra 8x11 area in the back!!!!!!!!!!

Would you rather have a rock-solid tC with a normal sunroof (ditch that little back non-functional roof) or have the "pseudo-panoramic" roof with all of its troubles?
Those of you who dont have roof rattles can still answer, does that 2nd sunroof justify the extra cost/structural support/weight/lower gas mileage???? Disucss....... - t
I hate to tell you this, but every single rattle I had 3 weeks ago is gone....
 

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Originally posted by imasaf+Sep 14 2004, 10:29 AM-->QUOTE (imasaf @ Sep 14 2004, 10:29 AM)
<!--QuoteBegin-Zygote55
@Sep 14 2004, 08:23 AM
I hate to tell you this, but every single rattle I had 3 weeks ago is gone....
I'm so jealous...
I cant wait for the TSB...
[/b]
Rumors are TSB is out already. Call your dealer (or couple of dealers to be sure) and make them check.
 

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Originally posted by edng16@Sep 14 2004, 02:22 AM
Pros with no panoramic moonroof:

.....

4. No cheap moonroof cover, could have used a solid sliding cover.

5. No squeaks, rattles, or wind noise do to panoramic roof.

6. More head room for all passengers.

....

8. Not sure, but I think that the glass roof makes it like sauna in the the car on hot days, like a greenhouse. Regular moonroof might be cooler on hot days

9. Better looking roof from the exterior, with body color on roof

10. Bigger moonroof for front passengers (the ones who count
)
Just my $.02 as well....

On #4) Actually, I like the moonroof covers, and I've had a lot of friends and family say they really like them. I like them because they're different, easy to clean, and while they are thin they still work pretty well at blocking out noise when you have the moonroof in vent position, but the covers closed.

#5) My moonroof did make popping noises for awhile....but lately I haven't noticed it making any noise at all (I'm at 2300 miles). Also, with or without the panoramic roof, you're gonna' have wind noise with a moonroof.

#6) I'm 5, 7" and don't have any problems with head room...and my 6'1" brother didn't either (even with the moonroof closed and the covers in position, too. Also, when my 5'6" mom was climbing out of the backseat the first time she was in it, my brother laughed at her and said, "Why don't you just stand up to get out." She responded, "Well, I will if I need to." And he said, "You can do what you want...I was just commenting on the fact that you COULD stand up in it....that's crazy!" My thing is, can you imagine how much less head room there would be if we had thick moonroof panels?

#8) I don't know how much of a difference the small glass opening in the back makes, especially when you have you covers closed...but I keep mine open all the time and don't have too much of a problem. I think Scion did a great thing with all the tint/protection they used on the glass. I burned my face this past weekend at a football game and it's amazing how much of a difference having the glass open and closed really makes, painwise.


#9) Actually, I LOVE the exterior look of the car BECAUSE there isn't body color on top. Its that whole WOW factor, for me! I love driving by tractor trailers and other high vehicles because I like showing it off...hehe.

#10) Maybe it feels big enough to me because I've never had one before, but I think the size is perfect. It's enough to see the clouds/stars, enough to help with airflow, and enough to keep most of the sun from beating down on me. If I wanted a sun tan from my sun/moonroof I'd just get a convertible.
 

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Originally posted by Zygote55@Sep 14 2004, 07:23 AM
I hate to tell you this, but every single rattle I had 3 weeks ago is gone....
I said this before, but I think that this goes away after a bit of a "break-in" period. I had all the pops and rattles bad and now they are all gone. I don't know how many miles you all have on your tC, but I have a little over 5K and I haven't heard a noise for the last 2.5K... not one pop or rattle. Hopefully this is the case for all of you with the noises!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
seriously.......if you take say...... a civic with a sunroof and compare it to the tC. The actual roof area of glass that the tC has is only 9" more. Is it really worth all the extra weight to have 9" of extra glass? Ive had the car now for about a month and a half..........had many compliments but NOBODY has every said anything about the glass roof , because it looks black (like metal) and its very tiny. I dunno, i just dont see the cost/benefit analysis comming out in the tC's favor on this one. Thanks for the responses guys, just wanted to get the clubhouse going again with a thread people could put their .02 in on! - t
 
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