[neuromonic]

QUOTE

would i see much difference in my handleing in my naturally aspirated tc

too bad scion won't come out with an awd tc, my what a wonderful world it would be[/b]

I'd say you wouldn't see a difference in handeling unless you have issues with wheelspin. I wouln't reccomend LSD for anybody who hasn't already upgraded thier wheels, tires, springs and dampers (for drag-racers), and for autocrossers or people who turn I would also add swaybars. Phantom Grip is on my list of things to do, but not at the top.

Part of Toyota's success is the Scion price-point. AWD would defeat that soundly. I would like to see LSD as an option, but AWD is clearly out of the question. Besides, aren't our cars heavy enough?!

 

[iGod]

Originally posted by neuromonic@Apr 5 2006, 10:33 AM
I wouln't reccomend LSD for anybody who hasn't already upgraded thier wheels, tires, springs and dampers (for drag-racers), and for autocrossers or people who turn I would also add swaybars.

yeah, so far that has worked really well for those of us who have got that far in mods. an LSD would be a great next step.
a true LSD is what i am waiting for, and the Quaife unit is most likely going to be it. I know people have had success with the Phantom Grip, but i am still waiting.

 

[neuromonic]

Originally posted by inevitablegod@Apr 6 2006, 04:44 PM
yeah, so far that has worked really well for those of us who have got that far in mods. an LSD would be a great next step.
a true LSD is what i am waiting for, and the Quaife unit is most likely going to be it. I know people have had success with the Phantom Grip, but i am still waiting.

Forgive my ignorance, but the phantom grip isn't true LSD?

 

[EddNog]

Originally posted by neuromonic+Apr 6 2006, 01:20 PM-->QUOTE (neuromonic @ Apr 6 2006, 01:20 PM)

<!--QuoteBegin-inevitablegod

@Apr 6 2006, 04:44 PM
yeah, so far that has worked really well for those of us who have got that far in mods.  an LSD would be a great next step.
a true LSD is what i am waiting for, and the Quaife unit is most likely going to be it.  I know people have had success with the Phantom Grip, but i am still waiting.

Forgive my ignorance, but the phantom grip isn't true LSD? [/b]

Phantom Grip is a limited slip conversion, which uses springs to apply torque to the spinning wheel when turning and locks up in a straight line under torque, but bolts on to the stock transaxle. The Quaiffe is a torque multiplier; it is a replacement diff that sends more torque to the outside wheel, rather than reducing slip on the inside wheel. The Quaiffe's operation requires at least some grip on the inside wheel to multiply to the outside. So, in other words, if either of the drive wheels lift off the ground with the Quaiffe, there's no torque to multiply, so it won't put torque to the wheel that's still on the ground. On the other hand, the Phantom Grip will never send more torque to the outside wheel than to the inside wheel in any case--it simply reduces wheel spin on the inside wheel. The reason why I'm interested in some sort of limited slip function is more for winter situations; I want the wheel with grip to get torque even when the other wheel is spinning trapped in snow. The Quaiffe won't do this for me, but the Phantom Grip will, to a certain extent. In the situation I'm looking to deal with, the Phantom Grip happens to actually be better than stock. On an autocross or dry/watery condition, the Quaiffe is the better solution. In the situation I'm trying to fix, the Quaiffe won't provide any benefit; that wheel that's getting zero grip will still get all the torque.

-Ed

 

[iGod]

well said, mr nog.

 

[lo bux racer]

In snow you just lightly apply the brakes and all your slipping problems disappear. You don't need a limited slip for snow. You need a limited slip for when you are at some kind of speed where you can't apply some braking to get the effect you need.

A classic trick in RWD vehicles with open differentials is to apply the parking brake a couple of clicks - not enough to kill it, but enough to act like a clutch type LSD, and drive out of the snow/sand/slippery condition causing one wheel to slip mercilessly. You can do the same trick with your FWD by very lightly applying the brakes.

 

[EddNog]

Originally posted by lo bux racer@Apr 7 2006, 12:51 AM
In snow you just lightly apply the brakes and all your slipping problems disappear. You don't need a limited slip for snow. You need a limited slip for when you are at some kind of speed where you can't apply some braking to get the effect you need.

A classic trick in RWD vehicles with open differentials is to apply the parking brake a couple of clicks - not enough to kill it, but enough to act like a clutch type LSD, and drive out of the snow/sand/slippery condition causing one wheel to slip mercilessly. You can do the same trick with your FWD by very lightly applying the brakes.

I'll have to try that next winter.

Any ideas what specific machine work Rick had to do to get the Phantom Grip working on his car? Maybe I'll go with the Quaiffe after all...

I've heard the Quaiffe uses a special lube inside, but I'm not sure if that's one-time or permanent. Does anyone know if Quaiffe diffs require any periodical or special maintenance? Lance?

-Ed

 

[lo bux racer]

There's a fundamental incompatibility with gear type LSDs and transaxles. Gear type LSDs want an EP additive. Your synchros do not want it at all. You have to decide which is better, being able to shift or preserving the service life of your LSD.

It isn't possible to provide a special lubricant for the Quaife unit since the gearbox and spool are in the same oil bath, so all you can do is run a good quality GL-4 lubricant and expect your spool will not last as long as it could if it were in GL-5 lubricant.

Here's what Quaife says about lubricants:
QUOTE

Silkolene Silktran Syn GL4 / GL5 is recommended for all applications. Silkolene lubricants are available from Quaife Engineering, please call or email us for more details.[/b]

 

[EddNog]

Thanks; now I need to rethink...

And my bad on the spelling of, "Quaife."

-Ed

 

[EddNog]

Here's the last one, and I'm not sure if anyone can answer this...

The Quaife will take a bit of wear and tear with GL-4 lube. The Phantom Grip will just wear away over time. Which of the two would end up lasting longer? The Phantom Grip or the Quaife in GL-4 lube? I know you can't answer how long the synchros would last in GL-5, because that has a lot to do with the way the driver handles the car.

-Ed

 

[lo bux racer]

Quaife says GL-4 is adequate, so it will have a decent service life. No one can guess what the PG service life will be. Don't run GL-5, you don't need it and there is no advantage to GL-5 in a transaxle that specifies GL-4 as adequate.