Nice post Rick. I wish you good luck and much success. Lots of good reasons for choosing this path!
Laying down a true performance foundation
I meant to post this here first but was tired and forgot, sorry guys!!!!
"So many times we get caught up in big power numbers, big wheels, big airdams and spoilers, etc, we sometimes forget what a real performance car needs to be effectively used. I have been doing this stuff for some time now and have learned all the HP in the world does no good if it is not usable because the rest of the car is not up the the level it needs to be.
Here is what we are doing to our tC before we turbo charge it and who we are involved with on this very fun project
1)preparing the drivetrain.
a) Aluminum flywheel, Clutch Specialists, to help rev faster out of turns and once off the line down the strip when drag racing.
b) 6 puc SPRUNG clutch, as above, note the caps for SPRUNG, we need a very tough clutch but puc clutches are generally to severe for the street and we do intend to drive this to events. A sprung puc clutch will be the best balance between our differing needs
c) HD Presure Plate, custom built to handle our 300+ WHP goal but not so stiff you can barely use it Again, Clutch Specialists.
d) LSD, Phantom Grip, they have taken great care of us in the past and we are more than happy to have them involved on this new project.
e) Redline gear lube, always worked for us, not sponsored so we just buy it.
f) Motor mounts, we are filling our stock front and rear mounts with Devcon Flexane 80 two part eurathane, this will control the wheel hop issues and help put more of hte power to the ground instead of wasting it twisting the motor mounts, etc.
g) axles, we are going to see but from what others have done they should be fine.
h) clutch stop, we will build one to limit the clutch pedal travel to just barely disingae for drag racing, faster shifts will result.
i) short shifter, allready completed, 63mm for and aft, 48mm left to right throughs.
2) suspension, all parts are on the way and will be installed next week.
a) Hotchkis STB, yes it does work and on a car modified and runing race tires it is even more important to have
b) Front and rear adjustable sway bars, Hotchkis because they make the best and to get the most out of the car we need to be able to adjust them.
c) rear camber kit, Hotchkis, again so we can adjust it for the best results on the track and on the street on the way to the track
d) Tein SS coilovers, have had great success in the past, andjustable damping and rebound is vital for racing in drags, autocross, etc, and nice and comfy setings for traveling to events.
e) Tein Pillow ball mounts/camber plates, so we can adjust to zero degrees for drag racing, 1.5 negative for the street and up to 3.5 degrees negative for autocross/ road courses as needed. This provides the otimum contact patch for the events we are running.
e)Rear STB, we will experiment with a design or two to see if we can gain anything from it.
f) frame stiffeners, basically for SCCA we can only brace from front to rear and not cross from side to side, we will analize and build them once we get up under the car and see what it needs.
g) steering quickener, a gear set that can be installed on the steering columm to reduce the amount of steering wheel rotation needed to turn the tires, will determine if need one once we start racing, can greatly improve lap times on tight tracks.
3)Wheels and Tires
a) Enkei RPF1 in 17x8, +35mm, 15.6 lbs. Lowers unsprung weight allowing for the suspension to keep the tires planted on the road, better braking, acceleration, ride, less wear on the chassis, etc. Offset widens the track effectively lowering the roll center.
b) Lite weight lug nuts, dropped two pounds over the stock units, same benifits as above
c) 235/40/17 Hankook R-S2 summer street and rain race tires, gained a bit of weight back over stock but have a tremendous amount more grip in the dry and rain, alot of super performance tires are a little heavy, sometimes we live with the tradeoffs. 17 rim size so we have some sidewall give to allow for better traction over bumps, less weight pushed out to the outer diameter of the the moving mass.
4) Brakes
a) most likely Wilwood four pot front system, working on a deal with them now. Less unsprung weight or close to stock but alot more braking force for track days and looks cool
b) rear brakes, adequate really but we will do a few things for the looks of the car as long as not penalty in performance, slotted rotors and single pot calipers most likely
c) SS brake lines, better feedback better modulation.
d) brake pads, will be changed according to what kind of events we are participating in, softer for autocross and street, harder for road racing.
e) ABS, will l likely remove it to save weight but mainly it is counter productive to most performance driving, will test it first once we start racing just to be sure.
5)Seats
a) Since this is a streetable car it will have some very agressive but reclining and very comfortable race type seats, last project had Recaro SRD's. We have not decided yet for this one. Very important to good car control when driving on the edge and beyond.
b)Seat belts, again very important to good car control and to safety.
There is alot more to do yet, moving the battery to the rear of the car or at least further back in the engine bay. Carbon fiber roof, either get somebody to build it or do it ourselves, remove sunroof motor and tracks, switcher and wiring. It would take a small book to list the reasons some of this is done and many more things not even mentioned here.
This is how to prepare a car to work well when you have plans to build some real HP to go out and play with, a whole car concept, something that is not done often enough in the import tuner world. Many do some of the right things then counter that with heavy wheels, big wings, etc, etc, that have nothing to do with real performance.
Best thing of all, build it to drive and enjoy looking at when you cannot be out having more fun behind the wheel.
But, if you are not into taking a car to this level, cool, make it what you want, just do yourself a favor and spend your time and money on a setup that works well together and have a more rewarding experience "
Rick
_________________
tC project car just getting started, plans include full carpc, competition audio, boost, suspension, autox, drag and track day racing.
"So many times we get caught up in big power numbers, big wheels, big airdams and spoilers, etc, we sometimes forget what a real performance car needs to be effectively used. I have been doing this stuff for some time now and have learned all the HP in the world does no good if it is not usable because the rest of the car is not up the the level it needs to be.
Here is what we are doing to our tC before we turbo charge it and who we are involved with on this very fun project
1)preparing the drivetrain.
a) Aluminum flywheel, Clutch Specialists, to help rev faster out of turns and once off the line down the strip when drag racing.
b) 6 puc SPRUNG clutch, as above, note the caps for SPRUNG, we need a very tough clutch but puc clutches are generally to severe for the street and we do intend to drive this to events. A sprung puc clutch will be the best balance between our differing needs
c) HD Presure Plate, custom built to handle our 300+ WHP goal but not so stiff you can barely use it
Again, Clutch Specialists. d) LSD, Phantom Grip, they have taken great care of us in the past and we are more than happy to have them involved on this new project.
e) Redline gear lube, always worked for us, not sponsored so we just buy it.
f) Motor mounts, we are filling our stock front and rear mounts with Devcon Flexane 80 two part eurathane, this will control the wheel hop issues and help put more of hte power to the ground instead of wasting it twisting the motor mounts, etc.
g) axles, we are going to see but from what others have done they should be fine.
h) clutch stop, we will build one to limit the clutch pedal travel to just barely disingae for drag racing, faster shifts will result.
i) short shifter, allready completed, 63mm for and aft, 48mm left to right throughs.
2) suspension, all parts are on the way and will be installed next week.
a) Hotchkis STB, yes it does work and on a car modified and runing race tires it is even more important to have
b) Front and rear adjustable sway bars, Hotchkis because they make the best and to get the most out of the car we need to be able to adjust them.
c) rear camber kit, Hotchkis, again so we can adjust it for the best results on the track and on the street on the way to the track
d) Tein SS coilovers, have had great success in the past, andjustable damping and rebound is vital for racing in drags, autocross, etc, and nice and comfy setings for traveling to events.
e) Tein Pillow ball mounts/camber plates, so we can adjust to zero degrees for drag racing, 1.5 negative for the street and up to 3.5 degrees negative for autocross/ road courses as needed. This provides the otimum contact patch for the events we are running.
e)Rear STB, we will experiment with a design or two to see if we can gain anything from it.
f) frame stiffeners, basically for SCCA we can only brace from front to rear and not cross from side to side, we will analize and build them once we get up under the car and see what it needs.
g) steering quickener, a gear set that can be installed on the steering columm to reduce the amount of steering wheel rotation needed to turn the tires, will determine if need one once we start racing, can greatly improve lap times on tight tracks.
3)Wheels and Tires
a) Enkei RPF1 in 17x8, +35mm, 15.6 lbs. Lowers unsprung weight allowing for the suspension to keep the tires planted on the road, better braking, acceleration, ride, less wear on the chassis, etc. Offset widens the track effectively lowering the roll center.
b) Lite weight lug nuts, dropped two pounds over the stock units, same benifits as above
c) 235/40/17 Hankook R-S2 summer street and rain race tires, gained a bit of weight back over stock but have a tremendous amount more grip in the dry and rain, alot of super performance tires are a little heavy, sometimes we live with the tradeoffs. 17 rim size so we have some sidewall give to allow for better traction over bumps, less weight pushed out to the outer diameter of the the moving mass.
4) Brakes
a) most likely Wilwood four pot front system, working on a deal with them now. Less unsprung weight or close to stock but alot more braking force for track days and looks cool
b) rear brakes, adequate really but we will do a few things for the looks of the car as long as not penalty in performance, slotted rotors and single pot calipers most likely
c) SS brake lines, better feedback better modulation.
d) brake pads, will be changed according to what kind of events we are participating in, softer for autocross and street, harder for road racing.
e) ABS, will l likely remove it to save weight but mainly it is counter productive to most performance driving, will test it first once we start racing just to be sure.
5)Seats
a) Since this is a streetable car it will have some very agressive but reclining and very comfortable race type seats, last project had Recaro SRD's. We have not decided yet for this one. Very important to good car control when driving on the edge and beyond.
b)Seat belts, again very important to good car control and to safety.
There is alot more to do yet, moving the battery to the rear of the car or at least further back in the engine bay. Carbon fiber roof, either get somebody to build it or do it ourselves, remove sunroof motor and tracks, switcher and wiring. It would take a small book to list the reasons some of this is done and many more things not even mentioned here.
This is how to prepare a car to work well when you have plans to build some real HP to go out and play with, a whole car concept, something that is not done often enough in the import tuner world. Many do some of the right things then counter that with heavy wheels, big wings, etc, etc, that have nothing to do with real performance.
Best thing of all, build it to drive and enjoy looking at when you cannot be out having more fun behind the wheel.
But, if you are not into taking a car to this level, cool, make it what you want, just do yourself a favor and spend your time and money on a setup that works well together and have a more rewarding experience
"Rick
_________________
tC project car just getting started, plans include full carpc, competition audio, boost, suspension, autox, drag and track day racing.
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Sounds great, Rick. Must be fun to know what you're doing AND have the ability to do it
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Tacoma, our TRD SC auto comp truck
Blue matrix, TRD SC, pully, aquamist, header, exhuast, Unichip, lite wheels, Kumho MX, we just finished, very quick auto
One of the first STIs on the road, custome audio by us
Our Matrix, fastest car their(not off the line but from 25MPH on, much faster)
Not seen in the driveway was my buddies F350 6x6 with 700HP and 800 ft lbs, get's it on for a 6 ton ride
excellent post as always rick! if only i had the money, time, and ability to do it i'd follow that path. me = jealous
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nice. cant wait to see the results. good luck with the rest.
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Obike,
I have heard rumors of rumors but each time I ask for substantiation all I ever get is more rumors, really. Sometimes I wonder if these rumors are perpetuated by those with a vested interest in not having such a low cost alternative available to us
But I am open to hear the stories if they are true! The only single one even near to having an actual verifiably problem was still an internet posting by somebody well recognized on a forum, that in itself does not quantify their actual level of competence. That particular one was quoted as saying his unit did not fit and he modded it to make it fit, right there is a problem, it should of been sent back. Then his tranny failed but do we know if he put it back together properly, if it was old and weak already, filled with fluid even??? Just not a strong case against the product.
My experinces was that I needed a unit for autocrossing my turbo Matrix and there were none available from any manf, no matter the price. Phantom Grip offered to make me a custom one if I sent my differential and they charged me less than normal for letting me us it and shipped back across the country and paid the freight, turn around time from coast to coast was 7 days!
A few weeks after I installed it and was very satisfied I added race tires and more boost. The unit was not designed for the power level nor traction I now had. I called them up, they said ship it back(big job taking on out as have to tear down that tranny like all LSD's. I shipped it back and less than a week later it arrives at my door, modified to handle the bigger load now place on it. They did not charge me a dime.
It worked incredibly well and I put about 10k miles on it, very very hard miles, on the way to or at racing events. I tore down the tranny to check the whole thing out and everything looked brand new!
So, I have very positive experience under adverse conditions and I can verify that with those that saw it and in the car it currently resides in nearly two years later still going strong.
Until I see proof positive there is a real problem with the units, I will recommend them
Rick
I have heard rumors of rumors but each time I ask for substantiation all I ever get is more rumors, really. Sometimes I wonder if these rumors are perpetuated by those with a vested interest in not having such a low cost alternative available to us
But I am open to hear the stories if they are true! The only single one even near to having an actual verifiably problem was still an internet posting by somebody well recognized on a forum, that in itself does not quantify their actual level of competence. That particular one was quoted as saying his unit did not fit and he modded it to make it fit, right there is a problem, it should of been sent back. Then his tranny failed but do we know if he put it back together properly, if it was old and weak already, filled with fluid even??? Just not a strong case against the product.
My experinces was that I needed a unit for autocrossing my turbo Matrix and there were none available from any manf, no matter the price. Phantom Grip offered to make me a custom one if I sent my differential and they charged me less than normal for letting me us it and shipped back across the country and paid the freight, turn around time from coast to coast was 7 days!
A few weeks after I installed it and was very satisfied I added race tires and more boost. The unit was not designed for the power level nor traction I now had. I called them up, they said ship it back(big job taking on out as have to tear down that tranny like all LSD's. I shipped it back and less than a week later it arrives at my door, modified to handle the bigger load now place on it. They did not charge me a dime.
It worked incredibly well and I put about 10k miles on it, very very hard miles, on the way to or at racing events. I tore down the tranny to check the whole thing out and everything looked brand new!
So, I have very positive experience under adverse conditions and I can verify that with those that saw it and in the car it currently resides in nearly two years later still going strong.
Until I see proof positive there is a real problem with the units, I will recommend them
Rick
One of the reasons that it makes me hesitant to have it installed (by myself or even a "qualified technician") is the fact that it asks you to wear down the... I think they called it spider gears? Anyways, me (or even a technician) having to take a dremel to any part of my transmission just makes me naturally nervous.Originally posted by raamaudio@May 11 2005, 02:43 AM
Obike,
I have heard rumors of rumors but each time I ask for substantiation all I ever get is more rumors, really. Sometimes I wonder if these rumors are perpetuated by those with a vested interest in not having such a low cost alternative available to us
But I am open to hear the stories if they are true! The only single one even near to having an actual verifiably problem was still an internet posting by somebody well recognized on a forum, that in itself does not quantify their actual level of competence. That particular one was quoted as saying his unit did not fit and he modded it to make it fit, right there is a problem, it should of been sent back. Then his tranny failed but do we know if he put it back together properly, if it was old and weak already, filled with fluid even??? Just not a strong case against the product.
My experinces was that I needed a unit for autocrossing my turbo Matrix and there were none available from any manf, no matter the price. Phantom Grip offered to make me a custom one if I sent my differential and they charged me less than normal for letting me us it and shipped back across the country and paid the freight, turn around time from coast to coast was 7 days!
A few weeks after I installed it and was very satisfied I added race tires and more boost. The unit was not designed for the power level nor traction I now had. I called them up, they said ship it back(big job taking on out as have to tear down that tranny like all LSD's. I shipped it back and less than a week later it arrives at my door, modified to handle the bigger load now place on it. They did not charge me a dime.
It worked incredibly well and I put about 10k miles on it, very very hard miles, on the way to or at racing events. I tore down the tranny to check the whole thing out and everything looked brand new!
So, I have very positive experience under adverse conditions and I can verify that with those that saw it and in the car it currently resides in nearly two years later still going strong.
Until I see proof positive there is a real problem with the units, I will recommend them
Rick
yea all the negative talk on the PG LSDs are just hear-say. i got to drive rick's turbo matrix and that was beast. it was putting out around 230whp if i remember correctly. ive watched him auto-x it and drive the hell out of the car. i remember one time he lit up the tires once during one turn lol and i was shocked. but at another event at the end he let me take his turbo trix out for a ride and once i hit boost the tires temporarily lost traction for a split second until the PG kicked in. quite an awesome unit, especially for the price and customer service that stands behind their products. ill be heading down that direction when i have to put in a new clutch and flywheel in my XRS.
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I have never heard of doing anything to the spider gears by their instructions, certainly did not say so in the units I installed
The one above was some guy bought a unit that did not fit, we have no idea if was for his specific transmission and just made wrong, was for another unit and he adapted it, etc, etc, he should of not installed it in the first place.
But, their could be more to the story we do not know about.
So far this is the only one I have heard of that wasn't just some sort of "I heard, this, I heard that, blah, blah, blah, none of which is acceptable information to make any sort of decission on.
I do know there is a group of new Mini's back east that all race in a class just for them and they all use the Phantom Grip
CJ, the car Matrix had 250WHP after my son and I ditched the "turbo shop" system and built our own, your last time in the car had that power
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So far, every time I hear a negative comment about Phantom Grip I ask for hard evidence or at least a story we can substantiate, never happens, normally the theads die right then and there as well.
Rick
The one above was some guy bought a unit that did not fit, we have no idea if was for his specific transmission and just made wrong, was for another unit and he adapted it, etc, etc, he should of not installed it in the first place.
But, their could be more to the story we do not know about.
So far this is the only one I have heard of that wasn't just some sort of "I heard, this, I heard that, blah, blah, blah, none of which is acceptable information to make any sort of decission on.
I do know there is a group of new Mini's back east that all race in a class just for them and they all use the Phantom Grip
CJ, the car Matrix had 250WHP after my son and I ditched the "turbo shop" system and built our own, your last time in the car had that power
So far, every time I hear a negative comment about Phantom Grip I ask for hard evidence or at least a story we can substantiate, never happens, normally the theads die right then and there as well.
Rick
250whp? dam!! i knew it felt too good to be just 220whp
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1 - 17 of 17 Posts
