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just a little request from everyone

2924 Views 38 Replies 13 Participants Last post by  greddytc05
hello to all of you. as a new member of this forum i have only one request to ask of everyone that is a member. please dont try to be a father figure to people on this website. if people want to race there cars on the street then thats what they are going to do. you can be as carefull as you possibly can be when your racing and not have a single thing happen to you all day long. but then on the way home when you are driveing nice and slow someone else that just plain and simply arent paying attention to what they are doing can hit you head on or something. also this is listed as a racing section of the forums so you are going to have plenty of people talking about getting into races on the streets. im not trying to sound like an a$$ hole here but i just hate going to forums and reading replys of people saying to be careful or you shouldnt be doing that or anything like that.

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Let's add a Rice Gallery then!


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Originally posted by lo bux racer@Aug 3 2005, 08:38 PM
Aw come on. Did you have to spoil the fun? Did somebody get hurt? I though we were playing pretty nicely...Besides, I have a story to tell to reply to Oliver Thomas!

[EDIT] Fix your sig D, were 2555 miles from Maita to the hotel. two triple nickel! [/EDIT]
*shrugs. Like I said, and obviously was mis-understood, if you don't want to hear it/see it, don't listen to it/read it. That was the gist of it anyway. My point was that to create a post (a first post from a new member not to mention) about how he doesn't want to hear anyone say anything about how irresponcible it is to go screaming down a crowded highway is kind of representative of a growing american assumption that no one should have to censor their own lives. People seem to not want to have to make any choices about anything anymore about what they listen to or read. Give me a break.

I'm way to young to be so cynical, but there it is.


Lance was about to grace us with a story for the books.

So i'll say again, see if we can get him to spill...

WTF Lance?

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Originally posted by inevitablegod@Aug 3 2005, 09:12 PM
i dont want to read about oprah, so i dont open her magazine. i get what our new friend (if you guys havent scared him away) is saying. and i agree.
Wait a sec. What our "new friend" is saying (unless i'm WAY out in left field) is not that people shouldn't post about racing. He's saying that he doesnt' want anyone to post that it's irresponcible. We're all saying its fine to talk about it, but he is saying he doesnt want to deal with anyone being "fatherly" by stating the obvious about racing on the streets.

He's saying he wants to read Oprah, but doesnt want to have anything presented to him inside that magazine that goes against his grain.

eh, geeze. why do i get into these things. Someone tell me to STFU.

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no, what he is saying is he doesnt think he should open Oprah and have to sift through people interjecting into the articles how much they think oprah is a cow. and he shouldnt. even though oprah is a cow. but talk about it in the orpah is a cow thread, not in the i just handed that civic his ass thread.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH INEVITABLEGOD for understanding what im sayin. oliver who ever said anything about being affended by anything. inevitable knows exactly what im saying. say you just subscibed to import tuner. and you start reading through and find a bunch of articles about trucks or about how much imports suck. would you want to read it anymore no. same thing hear. i want to read about racing not how its dangerous. if i wanted to hear about how dangerous driving and racing is i would go back to drivers ed and watch the videos again.
Originally posted by OliverThomas@Aug 3 2005, 07:21 PM
WTF Lance?

Since I already cracked the egg, I guess I need to tell, as Paul Harvey would say, the rest of the story.

One sunny October Sunday afternoon in 1988, my friend and I decided to go for a bike ride from Gournes to Agios Nickolaus (Saint Nick's) on the island of Crete. We'd done this same ride earlier in the year on my birthday and it was great. He'd been practicing� all summer, and wanted to show me a few things he'd learned riding a Suzuki 400 known for its good handling and forgiving nature.

So we borrow some gloves from a friend, and I get my first bad feeling about the ride. I brushed it off and just thought it was because I was on a borrowed bike (a 900 Ninja). My bike, a Yamaha FJ1100, was down for a fully detonated #2 cylinder complete with crushed ring lands and cracked cylinder head. We took the gloves and headed to the gate to begin our adventure. Neither of us could have imagined what lay ahead.

It was a beautiful clear afternoon as we sprinted onward to St. Nick's, warming up on the esses between Gournes and Chersonissos (the Ville). The bikes were working well, and the pace was spirited but not uncomfortable. We slowed through the Ville, then wicked it a bit until we arrived in Malia. Crawling through town, we avoided traffic and tourists on the narrow road winding through this town of topless beaches, hotels, and tourist bars.

Outside Malia the road opened up and the town traffic disappeared. Winding pitch black asphalt stretched in front begging us to gobble it up at a near triple digit pace. We were at a 90% clip, and I was feeling a tug of uncertainty about going this fast on a public road. There are too many uncontrollable variables with only our wits to defend us against fate.

As we entered a slight left hander, the bike twitched hard because a farmer's cart left a brown stripe of dried Cretan mud across the pavement. The bike just didn't like the slippery surface, and I was getting uncomfortable about being on a borrowed machine at this level of commitment. Exiting the slight left, we entered a long, blind sweeping right with the dry brown hillside blocking any view of the apex and exit of the turn. My friend was starting to pull away in front, proving the point he set out to show me.

As the black macadam snake straightened in front of us, we saw an intercity bus stopped at the right side of the road. Six passengers had just disembarked from the bus's rear as is customary in that part of the world. Unfortunately for us, they ignored the pedestrian underpass just a few meters ahead, and had started crossing the road in a single file.

There was no time to think about what to do. My riding partner was only 5 meters in front of me, but he was close enough to the pedestrians and inexperienced enough to do what turned out to be the worst possible thing: he tried to go around the front of the line. In their terror, seeing a pair of motorcycles hurtling towards them at a speed far greater than they expected on any public road like this, they recoiled toward the bus. Some tried to run ahead, but as my friend adjusted, they realized he was going to go in front of them no matter what. He did manage to skirt their presence, but found himself off-road on the left, going down a steep, tree-lined embankment completely out of control.

Seeing this unfold in front of me was only the beginning. Having been through a few seasons of road racing in the US, and having had a number of riders fall in front of me, I knew the best thing to do was aim for the gap between the last pedestrian and the now accelerating bus. It was pulling back onto the road from the shoulder and the pedestrians were now sprinting across the road. If this plan worked, it would allow them to run across the road to safety and clear themselves from my now unalterable path. I aimed carefully, expecting to just brush the bus if necessary to traverse the gap of daylight between the last man standing and the rear of the bus. It almost worked.

The last pedestrian in the line, seeing me rocketing toward him and apparently on a full collision course, froze like a deer in the headlights. His right leg was behind him as he stiffened and braced for the blow. I was doing everything in my power to thread this needle and miss both the pedestrian and the bus. I was leaned over hard, nearly dragging my right knee on the ground, but it was not to be. I was completely dependent on him continuing to move, and when he froze, there was no adjustment I could make to recover. I could not steer, and I surely could not brake. There was no escape. I clipped his heel; he crumpled in a heap on the road.

I was now on the pavement too. The bus, completely oblivious to what was happening behind him, continued accelerating and merging back onto the road. As I slid down the road, the bike chased the bus, showering me with sparks and making the sick grinding sound large motorcycles make when they are abrading their engine covers on unforgiving asphalt.

An eternity passed. I kept sliding and thanked my Dainese leathers, Alpinestars boots, and Spidi gloves for letting me keep my skin intact. Others were not so fortunate that day. When I finally came to a stop, my first concern was my friend. I could see the pedestrian, he was lying in the road and a small crowd was gathering around him. My friend was nowhere to be seen.

I got up, and ran to the side of the road, fearing the worst. The trees at the roadside were quite large. My mind was racing with thoughts of disaster. I imagined the horror of seeing him impaled on a branch as I searched for him. Luck was with him that day. He was injured but not severely. His injury was limited to a serious knee sprain and minor trauma to his chest from hitting the motorcycle's handlebars. He caught his breath, and we both climbed the dusty embankment to survey the damage we had done.

The pedestrian was still lying on the road. He could not stand, and his foot was not pointing in a direction it should for his position. Two French nurses, on holidays, came upon the scene from the campground nearby and helped with first aid. They instructed me to make a fist and push hard into the top of the man's leg to stop internal bleeding and help prevent shock. I gave him my jacket to keep warm.

We waited for an ambulance to arrive; someone had already summoned help from the campground. Before the ambulance arrived, a Greek showed up with a truck and offered to take the man to the nearest hospital, 45 km, and 45 minutes away. I nearly left the scene with the man, as I was the only one rendering first aid to him, but a Greek friend from Chersonissos who had come upon the scene advised me to stay until the Astinomia (Greek Police) arrived. He was right; it is a crime to leave the scene of an accident, even if you are rendering first aid.

I was arrested and tried for criminal negligence. I was found guilty. I am guilty. I should never have been doing what I was that day in that place. I was sentenced to 18 months in Greek prison. It is the maximum sentence you can "buy"� out under Greek law. I paid fines to avoid going to prison. That was the easy part.

The pedestrian, a Dutch national, was taken to the hospital at Iraklion, where they x-rayed his leg and determined his femur was shattered. It was not possible to save his leg. Thankfully it was possible to save his life. This man was my age. He woke up that morning as he had for 28 years, a whole man. As he slept in an opiated haze that evening in hospital, he would never be whole again. He did nothing wrong, and this life change was entirely at my hands and as a result of something I was doing for entertainment. It was nothing more than a personal challenge to race with my friend as we had on a glorious spring day earlier in the year. Was it worth it? No way. Was the punishment severe? Not at all compared to what would have happened in the US. Did it change me for life? Undoubtedly!

As you can tell, I'd done this before and escaped without injury, and I still have good memories of my birthday ride. I've never had one like it again, and I doubt I could. Many worse things have happened to many people, but this is my significant event. It's a weight I carry with me that will never go away.
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Wow. Deep story, thanks so much for sharing lance.
Damn. Glad it taught you something at least. Would be a bigger shame if you had just brushed it off.
Wow...that's heavy. I want to know if reading that story changes GreddytC05's opinion at all.
I doubt it will. There are too many people out there who are incapable of learning from the mistakes of others.
well your taking a chance if you race out in the roads but thats up to the racers if they wanna get caught, kill someone else or get themselves killed, i guess its the adrenaline of racing.
no it doesnt change my opinion on it. i never said that i race in downtown or in heavy traffic. when i do race i always make sure there is plenty of open space between me or anyone else. and yes i did read the entire story but this is how i look at things in life. if something is going to happen to you then its going to happen. there is nothing you can do to stop it. for example: you can go out to the most remote location in the world to race someone. once you reach lets say 80 mph and the guy in the left lane cuts a right front tire. guess what he is comeing after you wether you like it or not. so even in that situation it could turn bad. im not saying that people should be irresponsible and run the cars in down town.i forget who it was at the moment without looking that said they drove by that accident with the civic right after it happened and hasnt driven anywhere since. that is that persons choice but to me it doesnt make any since. bc if your going to look at life like that then you shouldnt leave your house bc you might get shot walking out the door for no reason. but then if you stay inside your house all the time it could burn down with you in it. things happen for a reason in this world. do you like it if someone tries to sit there and constantly talk to you about something you dont want to hear about. no. and as inevevitablegod said before this is a racing forum. its going to talk about street racing. so if you dont want to hear about it or you dont like it why are you in here. the story talks about how he made a bad mistake that doesnt bother me post all the stories you want i just dont like getting preached to thats all. ive seen friends of mine pass people on the shoulders of highways, go 3 wide down 2 lane roads and all kinds of other dumb stuff. but i dont let it affect my life. that is there choice and there mistake. doesnt mean im going to go out and do it also just bc nothing happened to them that time. i believe people should make there own mistakes and learn from them. its unfortunate that they have to learn from the cost of others but thats life.
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Originally posted by greddytc05@Aug 4 2005, 05:34 PM
if something is going to happen to you then its going to happen. there is nothing you can do to stop it.
Not putting yourself in that position would help.

I hate the argument that its all fate and predestination.

But back to talking about street racing.
Actually, I agree with a lot of what greddytC has to say. Like Jake, I disagree with the "fate" argument...but I do agree with most of the rest, which I think is actually fairly positive. He says he doesn't race in such a way to endanger others, which is most important. If he wants to take risks with his own life, then that's his prerogative. "Playing it safe" is often, but not always, smarter, but it's certainly not as exciting. Most people take risks of varying degrees when they are younger; it's just a matter of learning which risks are worth taking and which are not while you're still intact.
I thought just like GReddytC when I was younger and riding motorcycles. I didn't own a car. I had a very fatalistic view of life. It changes over time after a few things happen.

A big part of what I do is risk management. There are LOTS of good sources for understanding it, but basically, everything has a risk attached. What makes us unique is how we deal with those risks. We all choose something different based on our life experience and attitude towards risk acceptance.

Before the event in the story happened, I had been riding my FJ1100 down a wide strip of road with no side entries at 156 mph, every day, all summer long, just because it was fun. I've done it once since then, and now anything over 140 makes me incredibly nervous unless I'm on a track. I only took the tC to 127 to see if there really is a limiter, and yes, it's there. I just don't have the desire to accept the risks anymore.
thank you, i think finally after alot of obvious arguing people are starting to understand what im trying to
but as someone else mentioned previously (sorry my memory with names is horrible unless i go back and look but then i have to type this over lets get back to talking about racing now. sorry to anyone that might have taken some of the way i was talking as being a prick. i didnt mean to come off that way.
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Originally posted by greddytc05@Aug 5 2005, 05:40 PM
sorry to anyone that might have taken some of the way i was talking as being a prick. i didnt mean to come off that way.
I don't think most people took it that way but thanks for being the bigger man and saying that. If we all had the same opinion the world would be boring.
i just got back after a few days, so excuse me for reviving this. i know the moment has passed, and i know that it even may sound a little harsh, so i apologize for the moment, and assure you all i am not being harsh...

what i think about lance's accident (aside from seriousness) is this - if the worst thing hadnt happened at that moment, and they rode through town at high speeds with not a single incident, this story would have been told over a beer after a ride a year later, and the mood would have been entirely different.

my point is this - do people change their risk level mostly before, or after, they pay the price of the risk? and do they applaud their boys up until that point of disaster, and only then talk about it being wrong? yeah, mostly. that is most of the problem. its the "i quit smoking, so dont you know that will kill you" syndrome. its cool while i do it, but once i stop, everyone should. and i just plain disagree with that.

now i dont want, not for a second, anyone to think i am pointing that little segment at lance, his buddy, or anyone else who identifies with his story. i guess i am just so jaded that when i read/listen/take part in conversations like this, its what i think about. those are the people who come to mind and there are A LOT of them.
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very well made point.
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