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141 Posts
how many watts can i push on my stock tC alternator before i need to get a bigger alternator or second battery?
how many watts
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capacitors really don't do anything if you don't have the alternator to back it...many people will agree with me on this because I have read it here, because on this forum there are plenty of technological people here. I have read that if you do not have a tighter wounded alternator then the capacitor will do nothing, and I have also heard and read that not having a capacitor at all would be even better.
I would say that a good 1200 of Clean RMS Watts would start to make the lights dim maybe even closer to 1500 RMS but no were near 3000 Watts RMS in my readings and findings.
I would say that a good 1200 of Clean RMS Watts would start to make the lights dim maybe even closer to 1500 RMS but no were near 3000 Watts RMS in my readings and findings.
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141 Posts
well i wanna run 2 15's and they would probably be running a total of 4800 rms. what would i need to power those?
1000 watts rms will make your lights dim noticably. A capacitor is a lot like a battery. It takes the charge from your cars battery and holds it. If you don't have enough farads, it can discharge all of its energy in no time rendering it useless. People that say capacitors don't work or that you need a new alternator are people that try to use cheap little 1 farad capacitors on their systems. At 4800 watts, there is no alternator that can save you. You need a really big capacitor and it all depends on how long you will be listening to your system each sitting, and how much time you will give it to recharge in between. A capacitor and larger alternator can work together to give you lots of power, but a capacitor doesn't need a larger alternator to work. It simply wouldn't recharge as fast when the energy begins to leave it, and once all th energy has left the capacitor your system will begin to wreak havok on your electrical system.
found this on http://www.howstuffworks.com/capacitor.htm
"In a way, a capacitor is a little like a battery. Although they work in completely different ways, capacitors and batteries both store electrical energy."
"In a way, a capacitor is a little like a battery. Although they work in completely different ways, capacitors and batteries both store electrical energy."
Okay let me clarify this! Go to a car audio comp and tell me how many caps you see on those cars. I use a 1 fraed cap just so on certain songs there is no delay in the bass. LIghts still dim a little.
Here is the thing a battery discharges energy slow but your amps need power quick and fast to hit the hard notes. A Cap is used to supply that amp with the burst of power it needs to hit. If you have a stock alternator then your cap is worthless. Really people think caps help with dimming lights well they do instead of robbing your car of the energy it pulls it from the cap really quick. Thats why caps must be installed within 12 inches of the amp. So the power burst can get there quicker.
4800 watt amp here is what you'll need. Alternator that puts out about 240 a yellow top battery and maybe a yellow top in the trunk. Upgrade your 3 main wires going fromt he alternator to battery. For that amp you'll have to have 0 gauge wire min! Don't try 4 gauge it will burn up. with an amp like that really just get a second battery.
Check out the MaAudio HK-802SX its 4400 watt amp. Its a beast and requires a lot of power. Upgrade your alternator and batteries or else on the first bass drop it will drain your entire system.
Here is the thing a battery discharges energy slow but your amps need power quick and fast to hit the hard notes. A Cap is used to supply that amp with the burst of power it needs to hit. If you have a stock alternator then your cap is worthless. Really people think caps help with dimming lights well they do instead of robbing your car of the energy it pulls it from the cap really quick. Thats why caps must be installed within 12 inches of the amp. So the power burst can get there quicker.
4800 watt amp here is what you'll need. Alternator that puts out about 240 a yellow top battery and maybe a yellow top in the trunk. Upgrade your 3 main wires going fromt he alternator to battery. For that amp you'll have to have 0 gauge wire min! Don't try 4 gauge it will burn up. with an amp like that really just get a second battery.
Check out the MaAudio HK-802SX its 4400 watt amp. Its a beast and requires a lot of power. Upgrade your alternator and batteries or else on the first bass drop it will drain your entire system.
Your post is an oxymoron because you hint that comp vehicles have no capacitors yet batteries don't disharge energy fast enough. Why would you need a better alternator if the alternator isn't even turning when the car is off, which is when the capacitor can take time to charge.
At comps your car is turned on so the alternator is turning. No system can last long with the car turned off.
4800 RMS what 15's are you looking at? Definatly post some db readings when your done. With that amount of juice I am giong to assume you'll be hitting the uper 145 range. You'll now have a 3,000lb vibrator.
If this system is going to knock like I am thinking go to the dealership and buy some new window seals too.
4800 RMS what 15's are you looking at? Definatly post some db readings when your done. With that amount of juice I am giong to assume you'll be hitting the uper 145 range. You'll now have a 3,000lb vibrator.
If this system is going to knock like I am thinking go to the dealership and buy some new window seals too.
The majority, VAST majority of caps do very very little if anything at all except can help with dimming lights sometimes, way to much myth and very little facts around about caps.
What does work better that all regular caps is Batcaps by Xstatic, they are costly but are amazing and I have seen them in action in world class comp cars built by some of the top installers ever. They are a battery and capacitor all in one.
My personal favorite is the Supercap by them, 50 real farads in under 2 lbs, I have seen them do things totally unbelievable until you witness it.
I am having something similar made for our comp car that does 66 Farads
BUT, they alone are just a part of the equation, you will need a much larger alternator, wiring of course and stiffer rear springs
Check out the post on our 15" sub install and comps we have done so far, totally stock electrical system and works incredibly well. Once we get it all done we should be in the mid to upper 140's with only a ten lb weight gain.
Rick
What does work better that all regular caps is Batcaps by Xstatic, they are costly but are amazing and I have seen them in action in world class comp cars built by some of the top installers ever. They are a battery and capacitor all in one.
My personal favorite is the Supercap by them, 50 real farads in under 2 lbs, I have seen them do things totally unbelievable until you witness it.
I am having something similar made for our comp car that does 66 Farads
BUT, they alone are just a part of the equation, you will need a much larger alternator, wiring of course and stiffer rear springs
Check out the post on our 15" sub install and comps we have done so far, totally stock electrical system and works incredibly well. Once we get it all done we should be in the mid to upper 140's with only a ten lb weight gain.
Rick
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141 Posts
the subs are hifonics goliaths
specs:
XX2415 15-Inch SPL Driver
Theile & Small Parameters:
Fs = 37.35Hz
Qts = 0.394
Vas = 42.5 Liters
Xmax = 25mm
SPL = 101.6 dB @ 2.83v
2400-Series Quad Voice-Coil Features:
2400-Watts RMS Power Handling
4800-Watts Maxximum Power Handling
Quad 2-Ohm Voice-Coils (QVC/2+2+2+2 Ù)
For 1/2-Ohm, 1-Ohm, 2-Ohm, 4-Ohm, and 8-Ohm Applications
11-1/4lb./180oz. Double-Stack Magnet Assembly
3-inch Bi-Flair Black Aluminum Voice-Coils
High-Strength Composite Silver & Fiber Glass Cone
http://www.maxxsonics.com/hifonics/spkrsne...hsubs_list.html
specs:
XX2415 15-Inch SPL Driver
Theile & Small Parameters:
Fs = 37.35Hz
Qts = 0.394
Vas = 42.5 Liters
Xmax = 25mm
SPL = 101.6 dB @ 2.83v
2400-Series Quad Voice-Coil Features:
2400-Watts RMS Power Handling
4800-Watts Maxximum Power Handling
Quad 2-Ohm Voice-Coils (QVC/2+2+2+2 Ù)
For 1/2-Ohm, 1-Ohm, 2-Ohm, 4-Ohm, and 8-Ohm Applications
11-1/4lb./180oz. Double-Stack Magnet Assembly
3-inch Bi-Flair Black Aluminum Voice-Coils
High-Strength Composite Silver & Fiber Glass Cone
http://www.maxxsonics.com/hifonics/spkrsne...hsubs_list.html
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233 Posts
All energy to move a speaker ultimately comes from the alternator. The amp simply takes the power from the alternator and changes it to something useful for audio. Therefore, the amp cannot produce more average energy than an alternator has to give. This is what we have to deal with until we find a way to magically create energy.
I am not sure how powerful the OEM alt is, but lets assume 90 amp. The vehicle will need 40 - 60 amps to operate which leaves 30 - 50 amps for the audio system. Ohm's Law: Power = Voltage x Current. This means the OEM alternator has 375 Watts - 625 Watts to give.
When the demand from the alternator is overwhelmed, reserve comes from the battery. When current demand continues, the supply voltage begins to sag. The capacitor is supposed to help with voltage sag, but does it really? Capacitors can't charge to a higher voltage than is available and the discharge a whole lot faster than they charge. They also generate no power. Bottom line is they really do nothing to help with voltage sag. The question I would ask a manufacturer who recommends them (especially one who sells them) would be: Shouldn't the amp have been designed right the first time? Why should I have to give you more money to make your amp work right? But I digress.
The average person will use 20% of the system power on average with music. On a good day, the stock charging system (in this example) can support a 937.5 Watt - 1562.5 Watt system (in the hands of an average listener). This assumes a 50% amplifier efficiency.
An abusive person will use 50% of the system power on average with music. In the same example, the charging system can support a 375 Watt - 625 Watt system (with the abuser). This assumes the same efficiency as above.
The difference between these two listeners is the amount of clipping they will drive their systems to. Clipping dramatically increases average power over time.
If we want a larger system than the charging system can support, we have to upgrade the charging system. Additional batteries and/ capacitors become additional loads on the alternator because these items need energy to stay charged. Additional batteries can increase reserve time whch only really helps engine-off listening.
I am not sure how powerful the OEM alt is, but lets assume 90 amp. The vehicle will need 40 - 60 amps to operate which leaves 30 - 50 amps for the audio system. Ohm's Law: Power = Voltage x Current. This means the OEM alternator has 375 Watts - 625 Watts to give.
When the demand from the alternator is overwhelmed, reserve comes from the battery. When current demand continues, the supply voltage begins to sag. The capacitor is supposed to help with voltage sag, but does it really? Capacitors can't charge to a higher voltage than is available and the discharge a whole lot faster than they charge. They also generate no power. Bottom line is they really do nothing to help with voltage sag. The question I would ask a manufacturer who recommends them (especially one who sells them) would be: Shouldn't the amp have been designed right the first time? Why should I have to give you more money to make your amp work right? But I digress.
The average person will use 20% of the system power on average with music. On a good day, the stock charging system (in this example) can support a 937.5 Watt - 1562.5 Watt system (in the hands of an average listener). This assumes a 50% amplifier efficiency.
An abusive person will use 50% of the system power on average with music. In the same example, the charging system can support a 375 Watt - 625 Watt system (with the abuser). This assumes the same efficiency as above.
The difference between these two listeners is the amount of clipping they will drive their systems to. Clipping dramatically increases average power over time.
If we want a larger system than the charging system can support, we have to upgrade the charging system. Additional batteries and/ capacitors become additional loads on the alternator because these items need energy to stay charged. Additional batteries can increase reserve time whch only really helps engine-off listening.
OEM alternator puts is 100amp. The only time I suggest a cap is if you have a small delay in bass responce then get a cap to help the amp with that burst of energy it needs so there is no delay. Other than that upgrade the alternator and wires and battery to help with loss of power.
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