[neo-truth]

I saw this on the news earlier and thought it was interesting. NASCAR is huge around here... I live about 10 miles from Bristol, where's there's a short track which they have dubbed the "hottest ticket" in NASCAR (and for good reason). Right next door to the race track is the Thunder Valley drag stip. So, of course anything racing related is news in this area.

Toyota has been racing the Tundra in the NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series for a few years with moderate success. It seems they are now entering the Busch and Nextel Cup Series with the Toyota Camry in 2007. I thought this would be the first time ever for a foreign car company to be in either of these series, but it seems there were some Jaguars raced in NASCAR way back in the 1950's.

http://www.toyota.com/motorsports/news/nex...06/1-20-06.html

 

[onefunkyfreshdj]

I wonder how those are gonna look!?!?!?

Nevermind.. I'm an idiot!!!

Maybe if I'd have clicked on the link..... DUH

 

[neo-truth]

They look pretty much like any other stock car for the most part. I know in the past there have been issues with a certain body style car having advantages over another body style. I'm wondering what sort of advantages/disadvantages the Camry will have and how NASCAR will cope with it.

 

[bluesciontc]

That is one thing toyota should not do. Nascar is an abomination of racing. It is damn stupid lets make left turns yeeeeeeee BORING next. Nascar is Fing dumb. Formula one, Lemans, Rally Racing and any thing that races on a street course that makes you have to actually drive is real racing. Also no just because nascar has 2 tracks they race that are considered street courses those car cant handel it they suck in handling and the drivers cant take it. Anyone can go out and make left turns. I hate it and i think it is stupid and i don't understand why people love it so much. IMO Toyota should not do this they should stick with there Formula one and Rally roots.

 

[neo-truth]

I'll take racing any way I can get it. Circle track racing is so much more than just turning left and driving in circles, though. Have you ever been to a circle track race? I grew up in a small town, and we had a 1/8th of a mile short track there (Lonesome Pine Raceway)... you were pretty much front row, mere feet away from the cars. All the sights and sounds and smells are almost overwhelming... it's truly a great experience.

I'll never forget the first time I went to a race there. When I first heard those cars start up, my blood really started pumping, percolating even. After they made their warm-up laps and got those exhaust fumes wafting over the crowd, and finally fell into the starting formation... I thought I was ready for the start of the race. When they finally dropped the green flag, and those 12 rows of cars put their throttles to the floor in unison, I was certain I was going to fall over. It's really indescribable the feeling you get from being there and watching the race, soaking in the experience. It's hypnotizing almost.

I'll concede that NASCAR can be boring occaisionally. And, like you, I prefer road racing: F1, ALMS, FIA WRC, SCCA SPEED World Challenge; you name it, I'm there. But NASCAR is no abomination, nor is it "Fing dumb". For many reasons, the sport has acquired a reputation for being a Southern, or even ******* passtime, and I've heard those "they're just turning left" and similar comments about a thousand times each. NASCAR has ascended above and beyond the "Non-Athletic Sport Created Around ********", though... there are races all across the nation: in the South, the North, the East, and the West. It's the fastest growing sport in America (I won't even get into the "sport" debate). And if they're "just turning left", you've obviously overlooked the other 42 cars who are beating and banging on them while they're just turning left. You've also overlooked the razor fine racing lines they must maintain, the jostling for position, and the battle to balance fuel consumption, tire, motor, and break wear with speed and consistency for upwards of 600 miles. To say nothing of the physical and mental endurance involved.

I'm a fan of NASCAR and I probably always will be. I may be from the South, but I'm not a *******. Racing is just something that gets into your system, and you can't get it out even if you wanted. I could sit here and defend NASCAR all day, and people will still put out those same lame arguments you have given, and all I can do is rebut with the same lame defenses that I have given. In the end, NASCAR doesn't need a defense. It's been around for longer than I've been alive, and it's obviously here to stay and continue to grow for the foreseeable future. Instead of bashing it, try going to a race and see how you feel about it afterwards. If you still feel like it's teh suck, then fine... but don't come around here trying to convince me of it.

 

[basilisk4]

I think all car racing is boring -- I don't bother to discriminate between the various types. I know that a lot of people like to act like they're better than others because they like "true" racing, i.e., not NASCAR, but they're all just types of the same thing, and it's all a matter of opinion.

As far as Toyota entering vehicles into NASCAR, this is just another great step for them towards taking over the American market.

 

[bluesciontc]

It sucks end of story. Those cars are pigs and they dont handel worth a ####. Was i trying to convince you NO. I did say In My Own Opinion it sucks and i think it is a stupid idea. The rest of the world looks at NASCAR as Fing stupid. I dont see one foregin driver in "NASCAR". Why is it that when F1 comes to the states nobody goes to the race when it is better quality and better fan related and F1 by far is the bigest sport in the WORLD not just Bigest in the US. There are more reasons but i can tell that ill just piss people off so i am not going to say it. In the end I will never like NASCAR nor will I ever watch it on TV ever again.

 

[basilisk4]

Calm down.

BTW, even if you could consider racing a sport, which I would dispute, the most popular sport in the world is soccer, by a huge, huge margin.

 

[neo-truth]

Jeff Gordon and Michael Schumacher have traded cars before in the past. Neither ran a race of course, but they did drive the cars around. And in no way am I comparing Jeff Gordon to Michael Schumacher... I think Jeff Gordon is severely lacking in the skills department, and I feel he's one of those guys who is better off being lucky than good. Michael Schumacher on the other hand is probably one of the best drivers that have ever lived.

NASCAR vehicles definitely are beasts in the handling department, but they aren't designed to be nimble little open-wheel racers. They are meant to go balls out fast around a circle track and take a beating, and they do that just fine. They do it so well that they have to run restrictor plates at the large tracks to keep them under 200mph for the sake of safety. I'm sure F1 and Indy cars can do the same thing, but they are a totally different sport and appeal to a totally different group of people for the most part. I don't see how you can even compare them, aside from the fact that they all have 4 wheels and a motor.

I don't recall seeing any foreign drivers in NASCAR either, off the top of my head, unless someone brought in a road course racer to run one of those tracks for them (Boris Said and Robby Gordon got into NASCAR via this route), or maybe a couple of Canadian drivers. I believe there may have been a couple of Indy racers who've tried their hand at a few races as well. NASCAR does have a Driver Diversity program though, which is seeking out drivers of other races and nationalities as well as female drivers.

F1 definitely is larger on the world scale. It has almost no fan base, comparatively, in the US, though. I can't quite explain it either. NASCAR on the other hand, is almost purely American and has a huge history and fan base here, and it is expanding to other countries. Just last year there was a Busch series race held in Mexico, and there's talk of expanding to Canada and even Japan.

I understand why you don't like it and why you say the things that you do, but I can't say I completely agree. I don't know why I bother trying to argue this point anyway. There will always be people who argue against it and there will always be suckers like me who just happen to like it and stick up for it. I don't see why the people who don't enjoy NASCAR have to argue so vehemently against it though... why not just shrug and say it's not your thing... like Marty did. I guess I will never know.

 

[bluesciontc]

By the way it was Jeff Gordon and Juan Pablo Montoya of the BMW williams team that trded cars not Schumacher. No body drives his cars but him they are tuned and set up for him he would die b4 some one drove his car i know this for a fact. I will argue for as long as NASCAR is around cause i dont see the big thrill. It is a bunch of ******** chasing eachother in a circle thats how i see it. Driver diversity they might try but no other person that has been brought up on any other form of racing will want to do this. Yes ill admit that it isnt my thing but it is mind bogiling stupid drive circle draft pass drive circle YAWN. If a nascar went balls out against a F1 car in a Circle track the F1 car would win hands down. Also F1 cars are the most advanced pieces of machinery that has ever been placed on a track to race. If a F1 car was to run full downforce at top speed it could drive upside down and not have a problem can a NASCAR do that no. I just cant see the reasoning behind it, And why F1 isnt big here probably because most americans are thick headed and dont like anything quality thats why they buy american made cars. I love America dont get me wrong but some of the things we like and some of the things we produce are just out right Sh!ty and stupid. The list goes on of reasons why i hate nascar so much but oh well it doesnt matter cause i am not going to change your mind and i dont want to i was just leting my opinion known that i think it is stupid for toyota to do this IMO.

 

[neo-truth]

I'll stop beating the dead horse here with the NASCAR argument. I don't see how it's a bad move by Toyota, though. They've done fairly well in the Craftsman Truck series. I'm sure they'll do fine in the Cup as well. There's an old saying about NASCAR... What wins on Sunday, sells on Monday. Like someone else said, this is just another piece in the puzzle for Toyota's American takeover. It shouldn't be too hard though, with Ford and GM digging their own graves.

Anyways... no hard feelings man. I like NASCAR, but as I mentioned before, I prefer other forms of racing. Formula One is definitely great... it's almost like watching a fairy tale taking place. Those drivers are truly the most skilled in the world. I have to give mad props to the FIA World Rally drivers as well... a few of them gave up F1 to do the rally racing. They have to be some of the craziest, ballsiest people on the planet to do what they do. I'd give almost anything to be in their shoes.

 

[lo bux racer]

F1 is boring to watch. They have the coolest cars, the best drivers, and they are boring races with only a few exceptions. One team figures out the set up for a race, dials their car in, and runs away. A close finish is rare in F1.

Winston Cup racing is all about close finishes. That's what people like about it. You can raise all the snobbish arguments about NASCAR you like, but the fact remains, they spend MORE on R&D than F1. An engine development program for NASCAR runs $40M a year. Cup cars bear no resemblance to street cars except a vague body shape. Everything in the series is designed to create close finishes, lots of lead changes, and a lot of racing in close quarters.

F1 does not have this. It used to be the coolest of technology. It isn't any more. It's no different than NASCAR in one very important regard: how well can you bend the rules to build a winning car? They've killed the technology by banning active suspensions, by limiting the size and cylinder configurations of the engines, by the absolutely stupid tire rules they invoked last year, and by fundamentally changing it from a technological competition to a rule bending competition.

I love to watch F1 because the cars are badass despite all the rules I would not choose. I love watching NASCAR because, despite your opinion, a good NASCAR race is like a chess match. Every move is calculated, and everything is focused on one thing: being in first place when the checkered flag falls. Just like F1.

 

[neo-truth]

Nice post, Lance. I'd say I pretty much agree with you there. One other thing to mention, I think... you will never see a NASCAR Nextel Cup driver pulling over to let a teammate win. I've seen this happen in Formula One when Barricello owned the entire race and had to pull over to let Schumacher win at the end via "team order". Don't get me wrong, teammates definitely help one another out in NASCAR, but when it comes down to the wire, it's every man for himself... there's no gimme's.

 

[krdshrk]

That's what bores me most about F1 racing. There's little to no competition in a race. You see someone "RIGHT ON HIS TAIL!" and he's about 4 cars back...

Nascar cars don't look the most glamorous, but they're "Stock" cars... Which means there's regulations enough so that EVERYONE has a chance. It comes down a lot more on the driver and their driving skills. Why do you think Jimmy Johnson & Jeff Gordon fell back in the past season? Their skills aren't as good or consistent.

 

[bluesciontc]

I beg to differ on the F1 and competition. This past year i don't remember a very big team finishing in first place hmm wierd thats what the new rules are there for to make it more competitive. Also Nascar a chess match i think not F1 you cant just pass willy nilly any where on the track there are only a few places where a pass can be taken select turns by out braking the other guy. They just don't draft then go then they get drafted and it starts all over again. Le Mans racing is by far one of the best racing ever. You might be like well F1 drivers don't need the endurance that Nascar drivers have well how about lemans drivers they drive a hell of alot longer and harder then a Nascar driver ever thought of doing. Nascar is at the very bottom of racing i don't see how it is so amusing to every one i really don't ok wow that car looks like the car down the street who cares. Le mans racing actually uses the stock chassis stock frames stock motors so hmm whats really stock about stock car racing nothing at all. Ill always like street track racing never circle track.

 

[lo bux racer]

Beg all you want. I have yet to see a modern F1 race with even 6 cars on the lead lap. That's not close racing. Le Mans does not use stock cars in the premiere classes, and even if they look stock, I guarantee you they are not the same as a car you or I could buy off the showroom floor.

I've done enough "showroom stock" preparation for road racing motorcycles to know that the phrase only means the parts were manufactured by an OEM. It doesn't mean the parts have not been modified to have superior operating characteristics.

Fine, you don't like circle track. Do you hold CART and IRL in the same contempt? They do the same thing: roundy round. And their races are just as boring as F1 for the same reasons.

Actually, I think most racing is boring to watch. It's only fun if you're working on the car, or driving the car. Anything else is a distant second.

 

[bluesciontc]

Originally posted by lo bux racer@Jan 28 2006, 12:29 AM
Do you hold CART and IRL in the same contempt?

Yes I do. I hate any race where there is very little skill involved. Yes i said very little skill. There is a track near where i am stationed where "Red Necks" go out and race there cars in a circle track makeing left turns and these motha Fu(kers dont even know how to drive on the road but they can make left tunrs going really fast as long as the turn is banked. I ll never ever ever see the fun in watching circle track driveing thats all it is, driveing not racing.



If any of you take offense to the term Red Neck I am sorry. But you can call me a Yankee if you want i am not offended of it i am proud of where i am from.

 

[SpeeedTc]

I think lance has a point. Racing is not terribly fun to watch. Whats fun is watching drag racing and stuff. BUT it will never be as fun as actually being part of the race.

The mechanics, driver, and the whole race team have to work well together to make sure they don't spend to much time in the pit. I think that being a good driver has little to do with it. but it doesn't have something to do with working well with the team. It really is a team sport. And for you to be hating on circle tracks that cool, because it is boring to watch. But i would bet money anyone of those drivers would show you up any day on the track.