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There is more surface area with 2-15's over 1-18. Surface area is the key to SPL, therefore the 15's would play louder. IMHO, neither one will be very accurate with regards to sound reproduction. The smaller the driver, the more accurate the sound reproduction. For subwoofers, I wouldn't recommend any larger that 12's. 10's will have the most punch but 12's are a happy medium. You could run 4-12's and it would play louder (again, more surface area=more SPL) than 2-15's and take up about the same airspace requirements. Just my .02 cents!!
 

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i have 2 12's my buddy has 2 10's of the same subs....if u stand by my window your hair will fly back b/c the 12's move more air, but the sound is not as good as his.....as far as i know and what alpman said... larger subs are better for spl and simply move more air.....i have and continue to debate on replacing with 10's instead of 12's, its a much better sound for every day music....i was even told by someone that they had between 4 to 6 8's and they hit unbelieveably hard....
in the end it all comes to preference, but coming from a guy who loves loud music and deep bass, i would stil prefer 10's over 12's based on overall sound quality

btw, keep in mind i do have solobarics, so my 12's move more air than the average 12 (b/c of their design)
 

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Displacement is actually what impacts output. Displacement is a factor of surface area and excursion.

For example: Two 15W0 vs one 18W3

The 18W3 has 5% greater displacement capability than does the two 15W0 system. This means no difference in output that can be detected with music. A 100% increase would be needed to get a 3dB increase which is the minimum we can detect easily with music.
The enclosure required for two 15W0 subwoofers is 5 NET Cu.Ft. vs 3.25 NET Cu.Ft. for the 18W3. The power handling of both systems is similar 400 Watts vs. 500 Watt. and the SQ will be the same. In this case might as well go with the 18W3.

For example: Two 15W3v2 vs. one 18W3

The two 15W3v2 has 86% greater displacement capability than does a single 18W3. This means there is roughly 2.6 dB to be had with the two 15 system which borders on a detectable difference in output.
The SQ of the 15W3v2 is better than an 18W3 thanks to DMA (Dynamic Motor Analysis) and the enclosure required is 4.25 NET Cu.Ft for the pair. Power handling of the two 15W3v2 sytem is twice the 18W3 system (1000 Watts vs 500 Watts) and you'll want to use this power to take advantage of it's displacement capability.

For example: One 10W7 vs. one 18W3

The single 18W3 has 73% greater displacement than a single 10W7. This is actually less than the difference from the two 15W3v2 vs. 18W3. This means the output of the 18W3 would be roughly 2.2dB greater than the 10W7. This would be very difficult to detect with music (more so than the previous system).
Power handling of both systems is the same (500 Watts) and the SQ is better with the 10W7 (thanks to DMA). The enclosure requirement of the 10W7 is 1.25 NET Cu.Ft. If you were to use two 10W7 you would have greater displacement capability than the 18W3 in an enclosure that take up the least amount of all these systems. The two 15W3v2 system would still have more displacement which would equate to just under 2dB of output potential.

For example: Two 13W1v2 vs. one 18W3
The two 13W1v2 system will have 7% greater displacement capability than one 18W3. So basically, the same output potential. The enclosure for the pair would be smaller (3 NET Cu.Ft.), power handling about the same (400 Watts vs. 500 Watts), and SQ would be greater (thanks to DMA).

It should be noted that most OEM systems cannot support a 1000+ Watt system under abusive conditions. A charging system upgrade may be required to supply the 80+ Amps of current.
I use these products as an example because I have the data. The same laws apply to all products however.
There are other factors which play into output, but there's no replacement for displacement!
 

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The idea that bigger woofers are not as accurate as smaller is completely the manufacturer's fault. Many manufactures strap the same motor to every speaker. They simply change the frame and cone and call it a day (maybe the voice coil but not always). If you have a lot of moving mass and not much motor strength things can get dicey. If the motor is optimized for each application, there should be no appreciable difference in performance (other than output). DMA (Dynamic Motor Analysis) is one method use to optimize the motor to the entire application, but this is proprietary to only one manufacturer.
 

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wow, that was amazing, thanks for the clarity
 

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2 12" or 1 15" doesn't compare.

I have one 12" that will sound like two 12" and I have one 15" that will sound like 2 15" easy

The 12 is 3,000 watts 1500 RMS
The 15 is 10,000 watts 5,000 RMS

The 15 is best with a 4,000 watt mono amp I have seen setups with guys running 4 of those speakers and they hold SPL world records.
 

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I think MaAudio makes some of the best subwoofers. Thats all I use now days and I used to win some pretty nice comps with mine. Even the show "Pimp My Ride" they are using the XL 12" subwoofer in the cars.

XXXXXXXXX are over rated, I know to many people that have blown them apart.
Kickers sound good but nothing special for the price.

I know MaAudio prices are cheap. For around 400.00 you can get the HardKore 15" which is 10,000 watt sub.

X2 which is 3,000 watt is about 200.00

Just to let you know if you buy MaAudio make sure you buy from an authorized dealer like myself, I have noticed a lot of these online shops are pricing low but charging for shipping when in reality I price low but offer free shipping because guess what, maaudio doesn't charge shipping


Remeber just because XXXX XXX or XXXXXXXX XXXX sells it doesn't mean its the best, they sell low end equipment at high end prices. Some people like those XXXXXX XXXX XXX they put out a decent sound but I have competed against people with them and they couldn't compete.

The key to a good system is having a good box! Just remeber that. You can have a nice subwoofer good amp and wrong type box and it will either rip the speaker apart or just not sound right.



MODERATOR EDIT - TRASHING/BASHING NOT TOLERATED!!
 

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JLTD-

I'm sure you have enlightened many with your very in-depth and informative, not to mention legnthy, theory on displacement. We do appreciate your input and thank you for sharing the knowledge. However, I was speaking in general terms, just as the question was asked. I did not try to cloud it with specifics in regards to any particular branded woofer simply because he did not ask. Maybe I should have clarified my reply a little bit.

Furthermore, not once did I see you compare apples to apples even with your own brand. You used a different series with each size. So, yes, you are correct when you make those claims. But it may be a little misleading for those that may not know the difference. I could say the same thing trying to compare a single Type-X 12 vs. two Type-E 10's, but that's just not a fair comparison. Not to mention the difference in efficiency & power handling, differences in enclosure design and the cost of amplification to drive that monster woofer to it's full displacement potential. A mid-powered amp of say 300 Watts would drive those two "E" 10's louder than the 1 "X" 12 due to the lower efficiency of the 12. Replace that amp w/ a 1000 Watts and the 12 would walk all over those two 10's.

Again, I respect your opinion and thank you for taking the time to help others. This is not a bash, so please don't take it that way. I just wanted to justify my previous reply.
 

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Originally posted by HaTeOnThYs05@Apr 26 2005, 06:04 PM
which company makes the best subs? not something that is rediculously priced, but what would be the best?
Every company offers products in various price ranges. A lot of cheap products are actually designed by Chinese engineers and has no proprietary technologies. There is little difference outside of cosmetics in the cheap. So if you are looking for a sub $75 woofer or a "buy one get one", buy the one you think looks coolest because they are all essentially the same.
 

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Originally posted by Alpman@Apr 27 2005, 02:50 AM
JLTD-

I'm sure you have enlightened many with your very in-depth and informative, not to mention legnthy, theory on displacement. We do appreciate your input and thank you for sharing the knowledge. However, I was speaking in general terms, just as the question was asked. I did not try to cloud it with specifics in regards to any particular branded woofer simply because he did not ask. Maybe I should have clarified my reply a little bit.

Furthermore, not once did I see you compare apples to apples even with your own brand. You used a different series with each size. So, yes, you are correct when you make those claims. But it may be a little misleading for those that may not know the difference. I could say the same thing trying to compare a single Type-X 12 vs. two Type-E 10's, but that's just not a fair comparison. Not to mention the difference in efficiency & power handling, differences in enclosure design and the cost of amplification to drive that monster woofer to it's full displacement potential. A mid-powered amp of say 300 Watts would drive those two "E" 10's louder than the 1 "X" 12 due to the lower efficiency of the 12. Replace that amp w/ a 1000 Watts and the 12 would walk all over those two 10's.

Again, I respect your opinion and thank you for taking the time to help others. This is not a bash, so please don't take it that way. I just wanted to justify my previous reply.
Actually, I did compare apples to apples when I comapared the 15W3v2 to the 18W3 (both the same series). The results actually agreed with your initial post.
I did mention that you would want to use the extra power to take advantage of the capabilities and that the charging system may need upgrade to support this. I used "capabilities" and "potential" throughout my post.
I compared the other systems so the relationship between enclosure size vs. output potential can be seen. Something to consider in a small car like the TC.
The moving mass of a W7 weighs significantly less than the moving mass of the W6 it replaced. These speakers can easily reach Xmax with the rated power (and stay linear well beyond). You're painting a picture with a very broad brush in regards to "big heavy speakers".
The idea that speakers with higher efficiency are louder than others across the board is a myth that has been perpetuated for a long time. Do you want high efficiency or do you want small enclosure? You can't have both. Basically the higher the efficiency of the driver, the bigger the enclosure needs to be to reproduce low frequency.
As far as the JL Audio examples, I used it for comparison because I have the data and we do not compare our products vs. others (even though everyone compares to JL Audio....wonder why). There is a lot more mention of Alpine from you on this forum than ever JL Audio from me. In fact until this post no one probably knew that I worked for the company. Soundguy50 seemed to appreciate my post and I guess that's what it's all about.
I am not sure why you felt that you had to defend yourself, I am not trying to usurp your power and I make it a point to never argue on the internet.
Respect.
 

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Hey JLTD I have a question for you. I have a Memphis 12" sound quality sub in my car in a sealed box. The enclosure is roughly 1.25 cu.ft. internal. I was planning on going with JL eventually when I get the money to replace the sub. I want to minimize space and was planning on going with either 8's or 10's. I like tight acurate sound with smooth response. I had called a JL tech and he suggested 2 8" w3v2's would probably match the output of my 12". I never play my sub anywhere near its rated output. When I do it just blows my mind that its one 12. Anyway I have around 500 watts RMS available from my memphis monoblock amp. What do you think would be in my best intrests? 8's? 10's? mabey some of the new w1's? What do you think good sir?
 

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QUOTE
Every company offers products in various price ranges. A lot of cheap products are actually designed by Chinese engineers and has no proprietary technologies. There is little difference outside of cosmetics in the cheap. So if you are looking for a sub $75 woofer or a "buy one get one", buy the one you think looks coolest because they are all essentially the same.[/b]
nothing like that, but what are the top rated companies that make subs and amps. i was to put a system in my car with two 12's and an amp. any ideas on which i should go with?.....anyone?
 

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i absoluteyl love my kickers....but i would just as quickly go with a high end jl or alpine sub...

some may disagree, but when it comes to bang for your buck i think these are great choices....

i know LaVaism mentioned Maaudios but i ahve never heard them so im not gonna assume anything....but i doubt people would recommend something terrible to a fellow enthusiast...any of the above are good choices IMO

and always keep in mind that box choice is huge....so make sure you get an appropriate box to ur sub and its application
 

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HaTeOnThYs05, where I live, systems are all that matter. Everybody has one. From hearing all different types of subs, it all depends on the money. Your cd player is the most important part and should not be cheap. Either keep the stock HU if you like it or go with alpine, their bass engine is just amazing, I'm sure alpman can tell you more about it. Your door speakers are also very important, either keep the stock ones if your on a budget or go with alpine type-s or infinity kappas. You can get cheap with your subs if your on a budget. Audiobahn, Power Acoustik, and Pioneer have great subs with huge amounts of power for very little money. They all have great response to low bass frequencies which is what I like. The Power Acoustik handles 2400 watts of power and 1200 watts RMS. To power that Lanzar amps are still damn good for the money after the Pyramid takeover. There is no point in spending a lot of money for a big name amp considering imperfections in low frequencies are almost impossible to detect, thats why we use class D amps anyway. Check out www.ikesound.com for some good deals.
 

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BTW I have a friend with 2 RF 15's and a 2000 watt Lanzar amp that cost about $150 bucks (not including subs of course) and he was pushing 148dB's at normal listening levels. 150 dB's is the loudness of gunfire and will permantly damage hearing in under a minute of exposure.
 
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