[lo bux racer]

Click here.

This ain't the best news I've seen lately.

 

[Dr. Isotope]

I see it as little more than a PR problem. The engines still make the same amount of power they did before, they're just measured on a different scale, so the numbers are different. Something akin to the different mics used for SPL measurement-- a setup may show great numbers on one and lousy numbers on another.

 

[bluesciontc]

Defiantly not the best news.

 

[lo bux racer]

Originally posted by Dr. Isotope@Aug 23 2005, 11:18 PM
I see it as little more than a PR problem. The engines still make the same amount of power they did before, they're just measured on a different scale, so the numbers are different. Something akin to the different mics used for SPL measurement-- a setup may show great numbers on one and lousy numbers on another.

Not exactly. If you are permitted to run your oil level low for testing, you can bump power 2% or 3%. There are some other tricks you can pull for dyno testing, even on an engine dyno with a full brake that can skew the results.

In one regard, you are right. The engine's power hasn't changed. However, the advertised available power is not what they actually delivered in full service trim with all fluids at normal operating levels. Sort of like back the 60's when all the domestic manufacturer's rated hp with no accessories (like water pumps and such) being driven by the engine. It's a sneaky way to produce big numbers that can't be achieved in normal service. Much like putting lightweight wheels on a car for Dynojet testing even though you would never run those wheels on the street. It bumps the numbers a bit.

 

[zoltiz]

QUOTE

Honda Civic  200  197[/b]

^^^ That's from the article. As in '05 civic hp vs. '06 civic hp. That's one quick civic...

Did not see them mention Germans at all, but I'm consistently passing my boss's 174hp '02 Jetta VR6 - so these guys might be in even bigger hole.

 

[phungy]

You beat me to it zoltiz, I was like what?! 200hp '05 Civic? No way...

 

[Azrael]

QUOTE

For example, the 190-horsepower Camry will compete against a new Hyundai Sonata that advertises 235 horses under the hood. "This could have a possible effect of eliminating a car from consideration," he said.[/b]

I'd still buy the Camry before the Sonata any day of the week. If it's broken, then 235 horses doesn't mean ####.

 

[Fallow]

It's out of the detroit news, and all the domestics make more hp and all the japanese make less, I wonder if you can really trust the article.

 

[japorm]

well... im kinda new to cars and i just got interested in making my scion tc better so dont like jump all over me if i'm wrong. ya the 160 maybe a little false because i've seen a couple of dyno tests that read an average of about 142 hp, but the tc for some reason still can keep up with a base rsx and a ralliart with proposed hps of 160 and 162, respectively. i mean even though the tc might not exactly be 160 hp or 162 lbs of torque, it can still be on par with the two other cars i mentioned.

personally i probably wouldnt have had bought the tc if the proposed hp was around 140. i would have gotten an rsx instead, but when i keep thinking about, i'm still pretty happy that i did by the tc eventhough all of the complaints about the cheezy dashboards, the whistling noises, the hp power myth, and the well overdue and probably overpriced s/c coming out.

 

[Plissken]

A dyno test shows HP at the wheels which will always be less than what the factory reports because the factory reports HP on the crank.

 

[bluesciontc]

Beat me to it.

 

[eddiemoney]

And to add, those dyno runs are pretty good, because you can assume wheel horsepower = 90% of crank power. This turns to 144hp w/ 160hp. Still you are beating everything in its price range, an rsx is a little bit more money

 

[silverrsxjezus]

Is the camry engine exactly the same as the tC, like...the internals and everything are shared? I just find it strange how...the tC actually dynos slightly higher than the RSX, yet it's rated 1 hp lower than the revised RSX now?

But whoteva. The fact is, the actual power hasn't changed. I like how when the news came that the 2006 RSX-S was going to have 201 hp, we had like a billion trillion threads on clubrsx.com sounding like..."omgwtf the 05 is faster than the 06" and that sort of nonsense, lol

 

[Jagman6284]

The Camry and tC share the same engine and transmission and I would assume radiators, fuel pump, so on.

 

[lo bux racer]

Probably. Until the online OEM parts souces start listing Scion stuff we won't know for sure. We do know the manual gearboxes are quite different internally.

 

[canrollya]

heres a not so mathematical formula
camry 2az=tc 2az minus semi forged rods and ceramic coated piston tops

ive been inside both engines

 

[lo bux racer]

What is a semi-forged rod?

 

[silverrsxjezus]

Originally posted by lo bux racer@Sep 1 2005, 02:16 AM
What is a semi-forged rod?

is it maybe...cast exterior and forged insides? Although I might be thinking of pistons...they do that for pistons, right? I think I remembering reading something about how forged pistons have trouble starting up, or soemthing, so they have to use cast exterior and forged the rest....or something.

 

[lo bux racer]

Forging is mashing a piece of metal into a die using a hammering process. Casting is a liquid metal process. I have no idea what semi-forged means, I've never heard of it. Forged pistons have more skirt clearance, so they make noise before they get up to temperature. Cast pistons are made by injecting molten aluminum into a sand mold or a die. Forged pistons use a piece of metal and hammer it into a die. The grain structure of the metal is different, and forged metals are typically stronger because they have a tighter grain structure.

It is also well known that shot peening rods and valve springs improves strength and service life. Maybe that's what he means by semi-forged?