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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys,

Im thinkin of upgrading my amps a bit.... to 2x1000 RMS monoblocks @ 2 ohms each. Looking to spend a cool grand on both of them. A few questions:

1. Will my 4 gauge wire and 1.5 farad cap be good enuf?
2. Will my alternator be damaged?
3. What amp will give me what I need?
4. How many amps will i be pulling at peak..(round 3000 watts i would say)

I've been looking at the MRD M1001 but the price.... jeez.
MTX and JL also make monoblocks, but what should i go with??
 

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okay first off and this is all opinion...but educated nonetheless...

(1-2)that kinda power should have a larger wire 2-0 guage, but 4 will suffice...and to avoid any type of damage to ur alternator i would get a 3 farad cap, and possibly even a deep cycle battery (optima red or yellow top)

(3)for they type, i swear by rockford fosgate, but there are plenty of good names out there, but u get what u pay for...if u want that much power you have to be willing to spend it equivilency, if not u will only end up frying it or replacing it...the new fosgate power line is amazing IMO

(4)lastly for them amperage im not too sure it depends
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
besides making my alternator work more, will it really fry it?
 

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as far as my knowledge goes of the situation based on personal experience ann from a few buddies at install places...u wont "fry it," pushing it that hard will diminsh the life of ur alternator and if u push it too hard it may not work when u stereo spikes, what i recommend....talk to a professional, there seem to be some on the site check out this guy alpman, he all over this site especially the audio/video/security...he knows his stuff

im by no means a professional, maybe more of an enthusiast, but an educated one, i have done about 25 stereos fro people from simple to custom, but i do it all on the spot i have no higher authority or any manual that guides me...and luckily so far the only problem i have ever had wiht a install was a amp power wire too close to a camaro ss engine, and had to re-configure, i have been lucky wiht no serious problems, and i know this is becoming a long post, but in my old 1992 toyota p/u i ran a 1000 rms fosgate, with just a single farad cap, and a yellow top battery....for three years i ahd that setup, i plan to put it into my tc in the next few weeks, but it never gave me trouble so i recommend take it step by step, unless u have money to burn

IMO do eveything but the alternator first, then if it seems like ur power is drainined, or ur car wont start (like usual), or worst case, ur dials go crazy and ur car wont start at all, but i see that aas unlikely

hope this helps a little but i definately recommened talking to some other people on this site, they know their stuff.....maybe change the topic of ur post cuz it might attract more reads as a question...lol who knows....
 

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Check out the new MRD-M1005 amps coming from Alpine. They are the same power ratings as the 1001's but have a retail price of only $550 each vs. $900 for the 1001's ran. They are class-D amps and require much less currendt than a conventional class AB design, which will help, but not solve, your alternator issue. To answer the rest of your questions:

1. Minimum required wire size is 8 AWG for this amp. If you are running a 4-channel to the highs as well, a single 4 AWG power wire will not suffice. I would suggest to run 4 AWG to each of these amps. I would run a 2 AWG or 0 AWG to a distrubution block and then to the 4 AWG. Also, the capacitor really isn't going to help in this situation, so it's not required. Save your money.

2. Yes, your alternator can be damaged. Take some of that money you saved on the capacitor and put it toward rewinding your alternator. You can get this done at a local alternator shop.

3. Refer to my first paragraph.

4. There are four 20A fuses on each of these amps. Under typical loads you will probably pull about 50-75% of that, so about 80-120 amps.
 

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dude this whole audio/vid section should be entitled "Ask Alpman"...u would get kida of annoyed, but atleast u would get some cred.

well done...do u work at a stereo place, or are you just that gifted
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thank you alpman! If I'm just going to run 2 of the 1005's do you think 4 gauge will sufface?? Also, i have 2 12's with 2 voice coils each: 550 watts each. so should i run one amp to one speaker only, or should i run one amp to the right voice coils, and one amp to the left voice coils of each speaker?

I saw there was some simplification from the 1001's to the 1005's. did this cut the features list? The subsonic filter is no longer a digitaly controled thing, as well as the LP filter. What if i have 2 amps and one is 10hz less than the other? Will it be off??

QUOTE
Multi-Amp Installation: Because the above Bass Engine adjustments are all digital and discrete, two of these amplifiers can be used to power the two voice coils of a DVC woofer. Note: Technically this is true of any amp, but with analog adjustments an oscilloscope is needed to ensure the outputs are identical.[/b]
They look sweet man!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ive heard some people talking trash about the 1005, saying its made cheap with cheap parts and thats how it is so cheap. Compared to the 1001 are the internals in the 1005 cheap?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Ok heres the deal:

1001: quality, better sound, bigger physicaly, 460 bucks.
1005: cheap, worse sound, smaller physicaly, 415 bucks.

Is it worth 45 more dollars? If you were in my shoes what would you pick?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Im pretty much set on alpine because of the quality i got from my MRD-M300s. Is there the same quality in the m1005s?
 

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We removed the DSP processor functions, freeing up alot of $$$. You still get many of the electronic controls, but they are not done in the digital domain (too costly). The sound and build quality is as good if not better, with better efficiency, larger capacitor banks, MOSFET transistors, flat wound transformers for better current capacity, discrete class-D design, top mounted controls w/ digital display, and dual fan cooled to reduce the overall footprint. Absolutely no cheap parts in here!! The LPF is an analog pot now, but it digitally displays the frequency you have it set to, so you can still match up the two amps perfectly. This amp is one of the best $ per watt values out there. Do not be swayed by the rumors as the amp has yet to set foot on the streets. So all you are hearing is speculation on why it is so "cheap". The amp is due to hit stores within two weeks. I would definitely go with the 1005's.

As far as the power wire goes, as I stated before, I would recommend a 4 AWG to each amp. If you don't want to replace the one you have now, just run a second 4 AWG to the back. And for the speaker wiring, I would just run one amp to each woofer. You still have electronic controls for input level, so the two amps will be level matched perfectly.

Hope this clears up some of the rumors. I'm interested to hear where you heard this, too. Anyway, make your own decisions. Either way would be a sound choice, but my preference is the 1005's. Let me know what you decide.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·

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Current = Power / Voltage. So 2000 Watts / 12.5Volts (in car voltage) = 160 Amps.
The amount of average power you will use with music depends upon you as a listener. Most people will use 20% of the amplifier's energy with music. In this case 2000 Watts x .2 = 400 Watts on average. The amp will need to pull 800 Watts to produce this average power out which means and average current draw of 64 amps with music.
If you were an abusive user (most people who want 2000 Watts on two octaves usually are) you would average 50% of the amplifiers energy with music 2000 Watts x .5 = 1000 Watts x 2 =2000 Watts / 12.5V = 160 amps average.
The vehicle itself will need 40 - 60 amps to operate. If the OEM Scion alternator is 90 amps and the car will only use 40 amps, there is only 50 amps for the system (50 amps x 12.5V = 625 Watts). All energy to move a speaker ultimately comes from the alternator. The amp simply converts the energy from the alternator to something useful to move a speaker. On a good day the OEM alternator has 625 Watts to give to the audio system. The amplifier cannot produce more average energy than the alternator has to give. The addition of batteries and capacitors will not change this. These devices need to be re-charged at some point and that comes from the alternator.
So basically, no matter what the amp manufacturer says, the amp is bound by the alternator's output. If the amplifier uses a non-regulated power supply, it's output will drop as voltage sags. Non-regulated amps are less abusive to charging systems, but their output changes with input. Regulated power supplies will draw more current as voltage drops to maintain output. You get what you pay for over a wide voltage range, but it's more taxing on the charging system. Regulation is typically more expensive so the retail price will often be more than a non-regulated amp.
Since the 1000/1 was mentioned and prices of other amps are being thrown around I will use it as an example. To compare apples to apples you must first equal the playing field. Many amps are rated using CEA 2006 standard. The 1000/1 is rated with 12.5V input .05%THD. The CEA standard is 14.4V input 1%THD. To compare the two equally take the CEA number and multiply it by .7. So an amp rated at 1000 [email protected] 14.4V would produce 700 Watts at true "in car" voltage under load. If the 1000/1 retailed for $1000 it would cost $1 per Watt. The other amp retails for $600 which makes it $.86 per Watt. This assumes the car can maintain the 12.5V base under load (it often cannot). So lets say voltage sags to 10.5V (very common) the 1000/1 will still be a 1000 Watt amp (although drawing more current) the other amp is now producing 490 Watts making the Watt per dollar average increase to $1.22 per Watt.
JL Audio produces both regulated and non-regulated amps (both rated at true "in car" voltage). Both have their place in the world. The bottom line is most OEM charging systems cannot supply the current needed for a 1000+Watt system in the hands of an abusive listener. I don't know of any car whose charging system can be upgraded to handle two 1000/1 amplifiers in the hands of someone with digital a volume control (full or off). In the case of the "Slash" series amps you are always dealing with true Watts. If the amps do not have enough voltage to produce rated power, they will shut off (low voltage protection).

P.S.
Your wiring will need to be upgraded.

P.P.S
If you already have a 1000 Watt amp (non-regulated) and the charging system is already overwhelmed, adding a second will produce no more output. The alt's output is now split so both amps will produce the same total power as the first. If you have no plans to upgrade your charging system (and wire) do not bother. If you do upgrade, the output will increase 3dB which is the minumum humans can detect easily with music (as depressing as that sounds). The Porsche only runs on premuim fuel!

P.P.S.
It takes power to make power!

P.P.P.S.
The 1000/1 will not lose power at higher impedance like other amp designs. The amp will produce 1000 Watts from 1.5 ohm - 4ohm.

Had to edit my math
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Jesus Christ, Im going to have to print that out and make a book outta that. But damn thank you very much, thats alot to think about. I know about the 3 db gain, but im hoping going from 600 rms to 2000 rms will help that increase more. :eek:penjaw: Thinking much, i shall do!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
"So Pardon me while I burst into flames."

JLTD, what you are saying is average output for the alternator cannot supply the amps average draw. But what if the bass only hit 3/4 of the time? the rest it would be able to charge and give me that extra uumph, right?
 

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There's a saying in economics:"There's no such thing as a free lunch". This applies to audio as well. Music is dynamic and unless you're listening to sinewaves clipped 3dB, amplifiers will not be producing 100% output all the time. If they did, the numbers would look like this: 2000 Watts x2 (50% efficiency) = 4000 Watts / 12.5 = 320 amps.
My post dealt with average energy use with music. The difference between the 20% guy and the 50% guy is the amount of clipping they will drive their system to. Everyone drives their systems into clipping, some more than others. Clipping dramatically increases average power over time. There are other factors that will influence average power over time like the Crest Factor of the music you listen too. A lot of popular music is very compressed giving it a "wall of sound" affect (Godsmack fans know this). If you listen to MP3's, the compression is even greater.
I know this sounds confusing right now, but if it makes you feel any better, many professionals don't unstand this either.
 
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